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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: SteveA on February 18, 2014, 02:32:59 PM

Title: Service Needed
Post by: SteveA on February 18, 2014, 02:32:59 PM
Today I received a work order for what I think is a marshal unit wrapped in Dacron.  Look at the directions that came with the assignment and tell me if it's clear to you what they are asking ?

There was a photo send of a hand reaching into a cushion and these directions =

This view shows the underside of the foam inside the top seat envelope. One of the two deep folds that prompted the repair-call is clearly visible in this foam layer.
Important: the client/ owner of the sofa stated that upon opening the shipping box, the fold was not there, so it developed over it's short time in use and by being used.
This determines that the proper course of correction is to RETRAIN the foam to 'forget' the fold it had 'memorized' for this short duration. This is because the foam was cured before the fold was created. (If new foam were used and immediately folded, it would always 'remember' the folded shape by curing in that shape and thereby be deemed defective.) The foam being then established as NOT defective, First the bottom skin of the envelope needed to be spray-glued to the foam layer beneath it to create a substrate that would hold the upper foam into position.
Next, the top foam layer was stretched back into proper position and adhered to the bottom skin also using spray adhesive.
The top foam layer now being in position, the envelope skins were all re-stitched into their intended positions and dust coverings all put back into place.

SA
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: sofadoc on February 18, 2014, 03:55:35 PM
So where do you take foam to have it re-trained?  :D

I'm not sure whether or not they are talking about a marshal unit, or just a foam core wrapped with a 1/2" or 1" layer of foam that has developed a crease (fold). I see those all the time.

I guess you could steam the fold out, and then spray glue the bottom side real good, so it doesn't revert back to it's old evil ways.

It's tough to rehabilitate foam.  ;)
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: gene on February 18, 2014, 06:30:15 PM
Unless they are spraying foam onto their furniture, I don't know anyone who uses foam that has not been cured. Are you sure they are taking about foam and not ham?

A wild guess is that the foam item, whatever it is, was not intended to be sat on or stood on, and once this was done, it got a fold in it.

If you don't know what caused the fold, how can you do anything that will stop a fold from happening again.

I can go on with many ideas, not of which would be helpful, so I won't.

Good luck.

gene



Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: MinUph on February 18, 2014, 06:57:04 PM
The picture might help.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: west coast on February 18, 2014, 10:24:17 PM
They use such cheap garbage foam its no wonder it creases and I bet its right under your butt. Steam it glue it and make sure they know YOU will not guarantee it will not happen again. Been burned by this repair before.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: SteveA on February 19, 2014, 07:12:05 AM
Just to follow up - have more info now.  Customer is complaining that the seat cushion is uneven. Unit less than one year old.  The fill is a marshal unit encased in foam and wrapped dacron. The only way to access the cushion case opening is to remove the backs, remove the mechanism, remove the dust cover and the stapled fabric along the decking.  The factory say's the foam can be moved over and spray glued back in place.  They pre-approve $ 250.00 but will go as high as  $ 350.00 for the repair if necessary.  The retail cost of the unit (love seat ) is $ 800.00 and if it can't be fixed the factory must replace.  The photo is the same unit but of their sofa.
(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad181/SteveA_2010/Sofa_zpsd56b96df.jpg)

Is this worth the trouble ?

SA
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: Darren Henry on February 19, 2014, 07:40:48 AM
Quote
The factory say's the foam can be moved over and spray glued back in place.  They pre-approve $ 250.00 but will go as high as  $ 350.00 for the repair if necessary.

I get alot of these. I don't waste my time (and customer's money) trying to save the cushion core. They'll only break down somewhere else in short order. I replace them with a solid quality foam core and always offer the customer the suggestion that they should replace them all while I have it stripped down.It sounds like they are willing to pay;so run that by them.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: gene on February 19, 2014, 08:34:26 AM
Quote
The factory say's the foam can be moved over and spray glued back in place.

Kool! Wouldn't it be great if all problems could be solved with a little bit of spray glue? LOL

If that is the problem, then the fix should not be too difficult. I'd be concerned that the problem was the marshal unit or a broken frame.

I was sent pics of a similar situation recently and the repair would have been a new insert. The seat cushions were a boxed style. Instead of going in through the back, the customer wanted me to cut the seams in the boxed cushion and slide the insert out the front, then slide a new insert in, then hand sew it all up to look brand spanking new. I said "No thank you."

gene
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: sofadoc on February 19, 2014, 09:27:02 AM
"Is it worth the trouble?"

Depends on who you're asking. Around here, $250 for a couple hours work is pretty good.

I would definitely take the job for $250 (PLUS PU/DEL). And 6 months from now when the other cushions are doing the same thing, another $250. And another.

Like Darren, I try to convince them to do all 3 cushions at once. But they always opt for the least, least, least that they can get by with. So they pay me now.......and pay me later.

I have no compassion for cheapo furniture makers. They've made it tough for me to make my living by selling furniture at ridiculously low prices that I couldn't even begin to compete with.  So I'm going to make money off them when I can.

On several occasions, this is what I find when I open it up:
 (http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy33/sofadoc/th_DSC00405.jpg) (http://s775.photobucket.com/user/sofadoc/media/DSC00405.jpg.html)
They use some really cheap crappy marshall units, and they sit right on top of no-sag springs. At that point, I require that the manufacturer furnish a new unit, or I will replace it with a solid foam core at an additional charge. Then of course, it doesn't match the other 2 sections. So they have to decide whether or not they want to pay for all 3.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: SteveA on February 19, 2014, 12:08:55 PM
I appreciate the help here as always.  I hadn't thought about PU + Del because I was going to do this on site with the intention of moving foam around then contact spray the heck out of it before gluing back. I hadn't considered adding or replacing foam because a factory rep. told me all the core filling is glued in and won't come out without tearing it up ?
I would hate to waste time taking it all apart to find out that replacing the core on the seat is the only solution.  The rep. said they produce 50,000 units a month so you would think they have exact solutions for issues that can arise with their products. They will auth. $ 105.00  for insp only.  Maybe that is the short answer and I'll find something less involved like a sinuous spring clip detached rather than a  cushion core sagging. 
I question whether it's worth doing if I need to supply cartage, foam, and be responsible to match the other two cushions ?

SA
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: sofadoc on February 19, 2014, 12:40:29 PM
Interesting conundrum. I'd say go to the house with the intention of doing the $250-$350 job, but be prepared to end up just doing the $105 pre-evaluation.
 
I would make sure they understand that if you repair it EXACTLY as they suggest, and it fails again anyway, it's on them, not you.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: SteveA on February 24, 2014, 12:19:40 PM
Turns out the cushion was fine but the frame was bent. 

(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad181/SteveA_2010/Mull1_zpseeb3dbd7.jpg)
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: sofadoc on February 24, 2014, 01:12:01 PM
Sounds like whoever sent you the initial work order was WAY off on their diagnosis.

I see those bent mechs all the time. And all they're going to do about it, is send you ANOTHER cheap mech.

"PAY ME NOW.....PAY ME LATER"
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: Darren Henry on February 24, 2014, 07:17:26 PM
Quote
Sounds like whoever sent you the initial work order was WAY off on their diagnosis.

You would not believe the lack of knowledge 90% of retail furniture suppliers have about their product. I've had work orders that were so wrong the RV techs were laughing when I got back and told them what the real issue was.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: kodydog on February 28, 2014, 10:37:53 PM
Turns out the cushion was fine but the frame was bent. 

(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad181/SteveA_2010/Mull1_zpseeb3dbd7.jpg)

So I guess you told them it couldn't be fixed. How do you fix a bent metal frame? Did they send a new frame to replace the bent one and pay you to put it all back together.

Did they pay you for the $105 for inspection? I've never been offered $$ to evaluate broken manufactured furniture.

Like sofa said, I don't mind charging for repairs on the cheep crap being produced these days.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2014, 12:31:58 AM
So where do you take foam to have it re-trained?  :D

The foam whisperer :)
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: SteveA on March 02, 2014, 07:30:46 AM
Kdog,
It had to be seen and evaluated - an inspection fee is standard. You should be getting a fee if someone sends you out on a service call.   Beyond that I spent an hour in the house disassembling the unit to figure out what the exact problem was.  When it was determined a bent frame was the issue - the customers told me not to put it back together because they were returning it to the big box store.  I guess they felt this loveseat wasn't meant to be. They weren't in the mood to wait for parts to be sent even if that was possible.  Leaving it separated made it easy for them to return it to the store.  All total with travel I had 2-1/2 hours into this adventure so $ 105.00 was small compensation for the time.  I billed, and will be paid - the customer will be refunded $ 800.00.  I don't think that they will re-purchase the exact same unit.  This was shipping damage not due to failing quality although I agree it was a  medium quality unit.
SA
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: sofadoc on March 02, 2014, 07:05:07 PM
Me and the local furniture stores have a little game that we play.

They bring me reclining sofas with bent mechanisms. I tell them to order a new mech. In the meantime, it goes back to my store room, where it may remain for several months.

Eventually, the store calls me to say that they can't get a new mech. At that point, I suggest that I just straighten out the old one. They say OK. So I beat the bends out of the old one against the concrete floor, or a hunk of steel.

When it leaves the shop, it is functional. But those cheap mechs are made of pot metal, and aren't designed to support the average overweight Americans. I'm sure that they don't last very long.
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: byhammerandhand on March 03, 2014, 06:45:24 PM
I had to repair a mech for a 380 lb guy a few years ago.  He was definitely outside the design criteria.    Coincidentally, he lived right around the corner from my daughter's in-law's family bakery.   I asked if he ever went there.   "Oh, yeah," he said, "I love their stuff."

SofaDoc -- just watching the national news and the mess in Dallas.   You OK?    


I get replacement mechs directly from Leggett & Platt, as long as they're domestically made.  Some are made in China and not available outside China.   They OEM many of the mechs I see.    Others come from Ultra-Mech, who offer a lifetime warranty.   Send them the old mech and they'll essentually rebuild it by replacing any bent or worn parts, repaint it and ship it back.   All you pay is shippng 2 ways.

L&P is also where I buy my replacement recliner cable pulls.  People always ask me if it's common for them to break.  I point to my parts box and say, "Well, I usually buy them 20 of a given type at a time and have about a dozen of them left.   So do you think?"
Title: Re: Service Needed
Post by: chrisberry12 on March 06, 2014, 09:32:30 AM
most new cheap furniture has no burlap over the springs in the deck which will cause problems with the cushions in a short amount of time. I always pull the deck padding, add burlap and then put old padding back and then everything is "Better then new" I also talk the customer to the top quality foam so I get no complaints after that.