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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: Old sailmaker on August 04, 2014, 05:16:35 PM

Title: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 04, 2014, 05:16:35 PM
Good afternoon everyone, looking for a little help. I virtually never used binding until a year or so ago and whenever I did i never used the attachment piece. Just manual sewed it and not bad. But i have since been trying the attachments with no luck whatsoever! Using 7/8" binding normally, acrylic, tried adjusting the attachment back and forth, until my patience wears thin, then i just take it off and do it manually again. Figure I can save a lot of time and effort if I could just figure out what I am doing wrong. Catches on top fine. Bottom doesnt get caught and it acts like it gets an extra little "fold" in the binding. Maybe change pressure foots on the old pfaff? Ive been sewing for 40 plus years now and its frustrating that I suck at something that should be pretty straight forward......in my trwisted mind anyway, lol. Thanks in advance for any help, tips etc . Craig
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: baileyuph on August 04, 2014, 07:19:45 PM
There are binders............
and there are folders.

If you are sewing carpet binding on with a folder, I can't do it. 

A binder is the best for actual binding.  This attachment is machined accurately for the binding being sewed and is framed out to fit close to the needle and the ones I have seen require a custom foot, feed dog, and feed plate and they work, manufacturers of auto carpet that require binding go this route.

Much can be said about this subject but in a word an effective binder is a piece of precision for the specific binding being installed and the peripheral equipment attached to the machine used.

On a relative scale, I believe even some years ago, one could expect to spend a bit over $500 bucks to get a professional binding arrangement.

Don't know what the status of this approach is today because newer autos do not use binding.  Probably the biggest user of binders today is for original older (antique) car carpet binding.

What is the number or identifier of your attachment, the machine you are using, and the feet  being used and feed dog plate as well.  Maybe some one may want to look it up.  A photo might be informative also.

Thanks for posting, interesting subject.

Doyle
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: MinUph on August 04, 2014, 07:29:15 PM
Graig,
  I use a 3/4" folder or binding attachment. It is the second one I've had. and they both work great. Are you sure you are matching the size with the binding? I know I'm sure you are but it cant hurt to ask. On mine the binding slides in and is the exact size of the opening on the folder. I set mine so the needle is about 1/16" of an inch from the edge of the tape and about 1/4" from the foot. I use a standard flat foot with teeth and it feeds smooth and even all along. It is important that the tape is fed straight into the feet of the machine. Are you attaching it with one or two screws? I need to use two to keep it from moving and I tighten them pretty tight.
  Like Doyle said pics might be of help also.

  It is true that it saves a tremendous amount of time from doing it manually. Once set up I just feed the fabric and let the binding flow.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mike on August 04, 2014, 07:40:11 PM
Somtimes i get a roll of bi di g that a tad tigbt in my 7/8" binder folder if it tight it can not slide easily and get a recerse fold at the center if it loose it can move sround and cat h on oone hallf and not the other
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Darren Henry on August 04, 2014, 08:11:38 PM
I would hazard to guess that the binder you bought was as bad as the one I wasted $30 on. we had a chat about this a couple of years back (maybe check archives) and people were posting pictures of their binders. Mike and June come to mind as having invested in good ones---mine was a piece of crud from day one and no amount of "tweaking" ever changed that. If you were to look down the barrel of it , the binding would look like" [ " as it came at you, not "<" like the good ones.And it didn't fit the binding well so the binding sort of "slopped around" on it's way through.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mojo on August 05, 2014, 08:57:30 AM
I bought this binder way back when I first started sewing. I have used it on everything from carpet to acrylic fabric. It has been an awesome binder and has taken a great deal of abuse. The quality is the best since it is made in Japan.

They are a bit pricey but then you get what you paid for. Here is what they look like ( brand is called Sussei ).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPAN-SUISEI-BRAID-SINGLE-FOLD-BIAS-TAPE-BINDER-Bernina-Quilt-Binding-A4S-/390632428059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item5af381d21b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPAN-SUISEI-BRAID-SINGLE-FOLD-BIAS-TAPE-BINDER-Bernina-Quilt-Binding-A4S-/390632428059?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item5af381d21b)

Chris
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Tejas on August 05, 2014, 12:41:58 PM
I also have a Suisei binder described by Mojo. I worked quite well on my Singer 111W155. However, my Juki has larger screw holes for mounting attachments, and the binder mounting slot would need to be modified to allow attachment.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 06, 2014, 05:49:14 AM
Thanks all, for some reason i couldnt post yesterday. Yes i got a $30 attachment from ebay or sailright . Mike i do use 2 screws and have adjusted it inside and out. Ill take a picture today of my setup and post it. Thanks again everyone. Craig
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: bobbin on August 06, 2014, 06:16:52 AM
Interesting that this topic has come up again.  I have a swingaway binder that I purchased from a very reputable sewing machine dealer (owner was a member here).  It was sold as a binder for single fold acrylic binding (3/4").  And I had trouble with it from the get-go.  Sent it back to Tennessee Attachment (who fabricated them for the dealer to retail) to have it retrofitted.  TA was total drag to deal with (I will never use them again) and while it works now, it's barely OK, IMO.   

Fast forward:  I am having a custom binder made for my Nakajima 380 (cylinder bed machine).  As Doyle noted, I've sent the swing plate (where it will be mounted), the stock feed and feet to the shop (Kaplan Sewing, in NJ).  I was quoted $500-550 for the set up.  It will be a right angle binder because that's the set up that allows binding inside curves and tight radii most easily.  I have a custom right angle binder for my Singer 31-15 and it works like a dream (double fold, takes a flat bias and folds the top and bottom under as it's applied to the raw edge). 

I've used a lot of binders over the years and when they are properly set up for the work to be done they're a huge time saver; but when they don't work they are a total drag!  Boss was too cheap to buy a good set up and the work always looked sort of rinky-dink as a result.  The first canvas shop I worked in had a great binders, 3/4 and 1", right angles on the throat plate for the top loading Pfaffs.  My goal with my Nak. is to leave the machine set up as a dedicated binder; but a well designed binding set up isn't that hard to swap out, although it does take time. 
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 08, 2014, 06:02:41 AM
Heres my set up, 7/8" double folded binding, attachment. The folding is what screws it up

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/MilesOffshore/imagejpg1_zps66131566.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MilesOffshore/media/imagejpg1_zps66131566.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/MilesOffshore/imagejpg2_zpsc3ec62d2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MilesOffshore/media/imagejpg2_zpsc3ec62d2.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/MilesOffshore/imagejpg1_zpscbba0116.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MilesOffshore/media/imagejpg1_zpscbba0116.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: bobbin on August 08, 2014, 06:35:38 AM
If your binding isn't being caught on the underside my instinct says that the folder is too large to keep the binding steady as it's fed under the needle.  But sometimes a "gut feel" isn't right.  I noticed that you have a welting foot on the inside foot and I wonder if poor contact with the feed dog is allowing the binding to "wander"? have you tried putting the regular feet on your machine to see if that helps with steading the feed of the binding?

Since you're binding straight runs you probably don't need a right angle and the set up you have ought to work fine.  I have friends who use that set up and it does what it's supposed to do with no real issues. 
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Darren Henry on August 08, 2014, 06:45:12 AM
that's the one I had. toss it,it's a piece of junk. I wasted hours trying to tweak mine to no avail.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 08, 2014, 06:56:43 AM
@bobbin, thanks i will change the foot and if that doesnt fix it, in the garbage it will go and i will try and find another one. Thanx yall
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mike on August 08, 2014, 12:40:28 PM
ive got the same binders looks like the same feet I don't know what they are I ever change them

(http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/th_FC4BBC89-6FC4-4D64-90A6-3E01FA58610F_zpsafmsjh2x.jpg) (http://s782.photobucket.com/user/Mike8560/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/FC4BBC89-6FC4-4D64-90A6-3E01FA58610F_zpsafmsjh2x.jpg.html)

I do like to angle mine a bit helps on inside curves what is the exact problem is it as boobin said not catching the bottom  when sewing?
once you get it right im sure you will love this set up when not binding I just slip on a empty plate unlike the swingaway binder bolted to the deck.

ive got a 90 degree swing away binder ive never use it just to odd and the tention is a lot when sewing the binding isn't free flowing with itl seems like the holding back of the binding tention woujld be trouble and I paid about 200 for it and it now rusty

(http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/th_E4B1CC0A-3ACD-4F26-80A7-79A958594682_zpso5f6jl1q.jpg) (http://s782.photobucket.com/user/Mike8560/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/E4B1CC0A-3ACD-4F26-80A7-79A958594682_zpso5f6jl1q.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Allan on August 08, 2014, 04:55:59 PM
Is it set too far back from the foot or is that just the photo?

I have mine just clearing the foot in both directions
I would have thought you wouldn't have too much trouble on straight runs otherwise

Allan
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 08, 2014, 05:53:47 PM
Mike, it doesnt catch the bottom and it creates a fold in the middle. Allan, i did have it up close to the feet one time but havnt recently. Maybe Ill try it back up close. Just picked up a large boat top, 12x15. ill try it again later this week, lol. Until my patience wavers anyway, lol. Need a body or two to go  marlin fishing tomorrow, anyone game? Lol
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Darren Henry on August 08, 2014, 08:31:06 PM
The problem I had with mine was the thickness of the fold ,and too wide. It was like 1/4" on top ,3/8" down,1/4" on bottom and enough room for the binding to twist and move.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: MinUph on August 08, 2014, 08:38:07 PM
I really feel like the oddball here. I've owned two and they weren't expensive like the ones mentioned here but both worked great. I think I probably bought them on ebay for around 30 bucks or so. The one I have now I did need to open up a little to allow the binding to run through smoother but other than that they were both good. I will say going around corners both inside and out is a bit tough but manageable.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mike on August 08, 2014, 09:50:10 PM
you know salt ive had a couple maybe that didn't work right. it is supposed to fold in the center but you say it folds in the middle ive had this  happened rather then a proper fold it gets a reverse folt in the center
like a "M" shape but ive  if I have one that works I keep. in the past ive dropped them and had to resolder the guide plate back on .. one time Mojo mentioned he dropped his on the flor then rolled his chair on it going to get it   ,  where are you located that your off fishing tomorrow sails must be aest florida maybe
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: scarab29 on August 11, 2014, 03:04:27 PM
I have both like mike but I prefer the right angle binder . I use a 1" binding and binder. I find this one easier around the corners but misses sometimes in the corners. Bought it from keystone and they set it up for my consew before sending it out.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Darren Henry on August 11, 2014, 05:52:35 PM
Quote
rather then a proper fold it gets a reverse folt in the center
like a "M" shape

I had forgotten about that. Mine did that to.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mojo on August 12, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
I have had the same problem. Turns out, or what I found anyways, was that it wasn't binder but rather the binding itself. I have gotten several rolls of binding in the past where the width was off and to large.

Chris
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Mike on August 12, 2014, 06:14:54 PM
Ya chris ive bgot one. 1" binder and only use it when i bind carlet or i can only  get. 1" once in a whole i get. 1" binding that a bit tight in the folder ive vot some blue right now i havnt used up because of this.   I just made a blue rear shade top on a saili g. At i have to put the covver on tomorow where i discovered the bad bindi g on the shelf still.
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: Old sailmaker on August 12, 2014, 08:18:48 PM
Yep the ol "M" fold is what ive been getting too. Im going to try to move it as close to the presser foot as I can and see if that helps. Got a job now with a lot of straight runs so ill try again. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions everyone, i really do appreciate it. Craig
Title: Re: Sewing Binding, am i missing something?
Post by: bobbin on August 13, 2014, 03:25:26 PM
Funny aside:  I received one of those annoying Linked In e-mails the other day. 

It was from the guy who (or whose company) fabricated the swingaway right angle binder I purchased (from a wonderful dealer and site member) that didn't work for the stated application and who took so long to retrofit it, in spite of the fact that I provided them with a sample of the problematic stitching/folding, a test sample, and 10 yds. of binding.  And whose fabricators never bothered to read my comments/problems or bothered to do a sample run of the retrofitted binder on the sample I provided that demonstrated the typical cut outs I deal with routinely.  Nor did anyone bother to pick of the telephone and call me to discuss the needed retrofit.  But Mr. Linked In had no trouble telling me that sending "dead Presidents" would hasten the retrofit... (yeah, right)   

Can you spell "delete"?