My Community

General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: 65Buick on January 12, 2018, 07:53:06 PM

Title: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on January 12, 2018, 07:53:06 PM
http://gdurl.com/Qqha

I've had a few different jobs/careers, but never before have I felt so excited to get up and get to work doing upholstery. It truly is a satisfying occupation.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on January 12, 2018, 10:53:11 PM
I agree. Nothing like standing back and looking at a job well done and saying, I did that. Nothing like looking at your own two hands and saying, this is how I make my income.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on January 30, 2018, 10:23:21 PM
Probably old news for most of you: got the walking foot sewing velvet just fine after reducing tension all the way and using a new needle.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: SteveA on January 31, 2018, 11:09:59 AM
I was trying to think of why you were getting puckers and didn't consider it was an easy fix.  You wrote for advice before pulling out all the stops. 
I'm the same way - kind of impatient when I'm working on a job with twists and turns -
You're going to one day know your machine likes it's a part of you
Watch the shading direction
SA
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on January 31, 2018, 02:13:59 PM
Yes, Steve. I'm working on being more patient.

I finished the decking today. http://gdurl.com/AgUu

Moving on to the IB and arms.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: SteveA on February 01, 2018, 11:03:36 AM
Ian you could not have done it better - looking good
SA
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on February 01, 2018, 08:11:22 PM
Thank you Steve - I appreciate that.
I needed to step back, take a deep breath. Wake up with the right mind and not try to rush things.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on February 28, 2018, 11:18:43 AM
Back to this guy - the IB.

I thought the original was RR but it turns out it was not, and two pieces were sewn in on the corners.
Paul has stated that I can piece in without sewing.
The rhombs are 6.5 x 10.5. Should I keep that or change it?
Also I will be tufting through the marshall springs with a covering of cotton. I will not use foam except for the armrests.

I will probably need to use muslin first so I can get a hang of it before I go with the good stuff.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on February 28, 2018, 01:28:34 PM
The old tufting didn't have foam underneath it?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on February 28, 2018, 02:04:31 PM
Kody - no. Just the armrests.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on February 28, 2018, 05:26:32 PM
Just my two cents worth here. Before poly foam tufted backs were stuffed with cotton. I'm guessing it was a time consuming process that required much more skill than working with foam.

I have taken apart many tufted backs with stuffed cotton in them. Sometimes this cotton is still in good shape and if I'm very careful to leave it in place I reuse it. More often than not it falls apart when I strip the piece down. In this case I throw the whole thing out. I'm guessing this is what happened when you took you loveseat apart and why you didn't save it.

I have never attempted to recreate a tufted back using cotton. Foam is so much easier and probably less expensive. Maybe some of the older folks have different ideas. Sure would like to hear them.

Ha! I turned 60 last Sunday. Rose told me I don't look a day over 65.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on February 28, 2018, 05:31:59 PM
The old dog brings up a good point. Just what was it filled with when you got it?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on February 28, 2018, 07:00:16 PM
There was a lot of cotton (felt) used on this piece. Obviously a time in which cotton was cheaper and widely used for padding.

It was like this:
small sections of foam (2") in the lumbar area.
Marshall spring units for the IB only
3" foam for the armrest area
then, cotton felt over the whole back and armrest area
finally the velvet
The buttons were tufted through the cotton and the marshall units.

This was after I removed the cotton: http://gdurl.com/Mgrn

As I was thinking today, I could probably just not use the marshall units and go with foam and the hole saw trick

I believe the foam in the lumbar area was not tufted through because it was low, and met with the back of the seat cushion.

The reason it was discarded was pet stain

And one more thing: I watched a video in which the person described cotton and being the best material for tufting. Sounds like everyone here prefers foam. And, I'm guessing soft foam, Like 30lb or less.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on February 28, 2018, 09:24:25 PM
Cotton is the best to tuft over but I think you misunderstood what they may have meant. When tufting over foam or springs, many people use a dacron layer. Cotton is much better for tufting but not as an only filling just the top layer.
  If you charged enough to use foam and the customer won't mind then foam is ideal. It will be much easier and more uniformed than tufting over marshall units. Cotton over the foam and tear the cotton where the holes are in the foam. You can reuse the spring if you like and still put a 1" layer of foam over them. Again tufting will be a little easier but won't be very deep. The springs won't allow for deep tufting unless there is thickness over that like foam. But that's ok if that is the look you want. Shallow tufting is fine is requested or redoing. If you do shallow tufting see if you can find soft (cloth) back buttons. IDK if they are still produced.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 01, 2018, 10:39:36 AM
All excellent information.

I will have to ponder this a bit more before I decide. And if I decide to go with just foam and a layer of cotton, I would be using 3"? Or would it be 2" and then build up to about 3 with the cotton?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 01, 2018, 11:16:45 AM
My experience tells me the deeper the holes the better the pleats lay. And the firmer the foam the better the pleats and the whole job look.

The thickness of the back foam will be dictated by how much room the seat has. Set some different sizes in there and decide what feels best. 2" or 3" are my favorites.

Do the same for the density of the foam. I would not use a soft foam but on the other hand you don't want it so firm it is uncomfortable. Keep in mind those marshel units will make it feel a little softer and keep in mind the tufting will add some firmness to it.

You can top it off with Dacron but my favorite is cotton.

The best advice I can give someone who is starting a tufting job for the first time is don't pull the fire out of the buttons when first poking them into the fabric. I like to pull them about 3/4 of the way into the hole. This lets you go back later and make adjustments as needed. When your done there will most likely be 2 or 3 buttons that will need slight adjustments, vertically or horizontally. This will require removing the button and re-poking it. You will be surprised how a 3/32nd inch adjustment makes a big difference. 
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 01, 2018, 12:22:17 PM
Just a layer of cotton.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 02, 2018, 01:33:30 PM
Just thinking ahead - I do have some large needles. Do I need the tufting needle Osborne #417?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 02, 2018, 07:08:16 PM
Not if you can get to the back of the piece. That is used to replace a button from the front only.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 02, 2018, 10:31:09 PM
The needle I use for tufting is 18" long. I have owned this same needle almost as long as I've been upholstering furniture. I'm sure I could use a smaller needle to get the job done but the 18 incher comes in handy for many other uses like stringing buttons through the ends of a bolster.

I also own a needle similar to the one you ask about. Like Paul said it is used to replace a button. I have replaced many buttons, for a fee, using this tool.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 05, 2018, 12:19:27 PM
I now see why the marshall units were used (I think).
With 3" of spring, plus 3" foam behind, I have to sit way far back to get support from the backrest. With this design, you'd have to waste a whole bunch of foam to build it up right.
I plan to go with with the original, 3" foam, 3" spring, 1" foam, cotton, hopefully that will be enough.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 05, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
What did it have before you stripped it? How thick?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 06, 2018, 12:42:16 PM
Got it all padded up. Now the hard part.

Found a little hole saw I used for tile - works great for cutting holes in foam. Hope it's the right size.

http://gdurl.com/1iMp


____


I did this little practice piece on 1" foam.
http://gdurl.com/tGEW

When I poke the needle through, am I poking it through pleats? Or is it just not tight because I didn't upholster it to wood or something sturdy?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 06, 2018, 07:03:47 PM
When you tuft onto 1" foam and it is all new you can do it by layout. top to bottom is a finish size and left to right add 1/4" per inch. So if you have a layout 4h x 4w you can layout on the fabric 4" high by 5" wide and mark the back. That will allow the fabric to fold. Your not going to get deep tufting with 1" of filling but it can still be tufting.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 07, 2018, 04:41:36 PM
Here's a little shot of the better measurements. I didn't measure super precisely being a practice. But it did fold nicely.

http://gdurl.com/uE8f


I still have the opportunity to ditch the marshall units on the backrest and go straight foam, but I actually think this light tufting shows off the crystal buttons better. The armrests are padded with only foam.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 07, 2018, 06:53:12 PM
Crystal buttons. Pretty snazzy. I have some of those. Havent had a use for them.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 08, 2018, 01:11:54 PM
Thanks. Trying to offer something different that you can't get anywhere else. Something to help define by business.

I looked all over and watched videos - still can't tell how the top of the backrest and armrest is buttoned. Do I just button it right to back of the foam with a slipknot and something to prevent it from pulling through? It appeared previously the twine was stapled to the back of the frame. And I've stapled the foam to the top, which I will have to undo otherwise I can't get to to anything.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 08, 2018, 05:15:34 PM
You need to fasten to more than the foam behind the buttons on the top of the arms etc. Just run the needle at and angle to get through to the rail where it can be staplese to the frame.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 08, 2018, 07:47:20 PM
Are you using a little piece of cotton between the slip knot and the foam? This helps prevent the knot from slipping through.
 
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 09, 2018, 09:53:28 AM
Yes Kody using cotton at the back.
Just debating about the piecing of fabric. When I looked at the original photo it appeared to me that they skipped one button on the armrest so they could sew a section on. I would prefer not to skip. I may have enough fabric that I could sew two big pieces together and make the entire thing tufted without skipping
Only reason I think they did this was to save fabric. I see no other reason why.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: Darren Henry on March 11, 2018, 09:03:57 AM
Instead of cotton I tie the strings around a 3" piece of tee braid welt folded in half.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 13, 2018, 09:29:21 PM
Starting to understand this a bit more - make spring tying seem easy!

You super pro folks - after you've determined where you want to button, are you able tob just eyeball the fabric for needle placement?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 14, 2018, 04:42:54 AM
Yes. You work with the weave of the fabric. How I do it is start from a horizontal like across the goods and a center line going up the goods chalked on the back of the fabric. I do the bottom row first then work up from there keeping the weave straight and working the fabric and folds to lay nice as I go. Adjusting the folds after the burron is in. The only time I would mark the back for each button is if I were tufting a board and 1" of foam/cotton.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 15, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
Previously, there were 3 fabric sections. One for the middle, and then 2 armrest sections. They were sewn in.

If I have the fabric, which I might, wouldn't it be easier to sew 2 big pieces together that runs right down the middle of the backrest?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 15, 2018, 08:36:03 PM
Starting to understand this a bit more - make spring tying seem easy!

You super pro folks - after you've determined where you want to button, are you able tob just eyeball the fabric for needle placement?

I know some folks who can do it this way. I have never been able. I draw the lines on the back of the fabric but only for reference points. Different types of fabric, different thickness of foam and different foam densities, even different styles of furniture make the hole placement... different. You may have to deviate from the lines but you can use the lines to give you a good idea where you are at.
 
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 15, 2018, 09:03:00 PM
Starting to understand this a bit more - make spring tying seem easy!

You super pro folks - after you've determined where you want to button, are you able tob just eyeball the fabric for needle placement?
I don't know about super pro but I do it this way. I don't really "eyeball" but pull the fabric where I want it using the grain or "weave" to keep things straight. Re-tufting old is a bit different than all new.

I know some folks who can do it this way. I have never been able. I draw the lines on the back of the fabric but only for reference points. Different types of fabric, different thickness of foam and different foam densities, even different styles of furniture make the hole placement... different. You may have to deviate from the lines but you can use the lines to give you a good idea where you are at.
 
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 16, 2018, 08:21:14 AM
This guy looks like he's done it a time or two,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eOcXRwx_eM
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 16, 2018, 09:53:57 AM
That's the guy Kody. I've been watching that video on repeat. Makes it look easy.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: SteveA on March 16, 2018, 10:53:27 AM
Is that one piece of leather ?
SA
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on March 16, 2018, 10:57:11 AM
That guy looks like he could tuft with his eyes closed. I'm guessing he does this everyday, 5 days a week. He does a very nice job. I notice he lets all the extra, loose fabric gather where the back meets the arm.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 16, 2018, 03:44:55 PM
Is that one piece of leather ?
SA

No. You can see a seam down the middle of the backrest. If you look closely, you can also see the corners have been sewn. But I think that's to make the pleating easier. I think this is two big pieces of leather.

And Kody, yes. He is impressive. If you look at the comments he gets paid by the job. But he is quick and methodical.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 28, 2018, 12:38:55 PM
Made it to here:

http://gdurl.com/S_Rk

I thought diamond tufting was developed to be able to round inside corners like this. But I don't see a way.
The old fabric was stitched just after the corner.

I have sewn a seam down the middle, making the width of the fabric 108".
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on March 28, 2018, 04:33:36 PM
Is your seam right down the middle of the far left buttons?
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on March 28, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
Yes, the seam is exactly where you stated. It's the center of the piece.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on April 04, 2018, 12:46:28 PM
Paul, I can see that piecing at the sides is not the only way of doing this. But, is it the easiest?
I have struggled with this for too long. I may have to move on or just upholster it flat.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on April 04, 2018, 07:59:28 PM
No need to give up if this piece is for yourself. You've learned a lot already. Keep trying.

There is a way of piecing it by folding the tufts under each other without sewing it. Too difficult for me to describe in words except to say the curve is the perfect place to do it.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: MinUph on April 04, 2018, 08:09:44 PM
65 there is no easy way to piece tufting but it looks much better than an exposed seam. Some guys can lay it out and sew seams that end up hidden I have never even attempted this I think it for factories and all new pieces so I just do it on the fly. What I do is this if I haven't explain it before.

  I start with a full width piece and tuft from the center section. When I run out of fabric I will tuft the last diamonds with just twine no button. Then I lay the next piece on this area and roughly cut the shape of the patch and button this in. This leaves the folds going in the wrong direction so it is better to add this patch piece under the original one so the folds all go down. Kinda hard to explain but when you do it this way you will learn what I'm talking about. Then proceed and finish that sde. Move on to the other side and do the same.

  If this piece if for you set it down and move on. When your ready go back to it. Don't stop and make it plane do what you planned on and tuft the sucker. You have to learn this as it WILL come up more often than you wish.
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: kodydog on April 04, 2018, 08:50:04 PM
A facebook friend just demoed this process. She gave me permission to post this from her fb business page. Hope it works.
https://www.facebook.com/achickandachair/photos/pcb.1526126780849189/1526126620849205/?type=3&theater

She also sent me this youtube video that explains the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=O5RAUbY6e-k
Title: Re: And the fun begins: Retro Loveseat
Post by: 65Buick on April 04, 2018, 09:33:15 PM
Thanks Kody, Paul.

This piece is intended for sale and I know of a couple people that would likely be quite interested. As it is though, not commission.

You folks would know better - but as I am now looking at tufted pieces I more often see different designs. Usually separates the backrest from the armrest, giving a better place to tuck in the fabric and allow for separate tufting planes. E.g. chesterfield.

I've got a much simpler mid century slipper chair to do so I will go there now. Sometimes if I'm lucky it's like the brain keeps working a suddenly you understand something you didn't before.

And Kody the books etc describe what you posted as 'van dyking'. Surely I will need to master that soon enough, regardless of which method I choose here.

I desired to sew & pleat as it was done originally. But, I am thinking the factory worked out well ahead of time exactly where to sew so that the seams would all be hidden, and the job would work well for the upholsterer. It did.