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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: 65Buick on January 19, 2018, 06:16:48 PM

Title: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on January 19, 2018, 06:16:48 PM
http://gdurl.com/P0Ko

I'm strapped with my heat gun...
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: Mojo on January 20, 2018, 09:21:28 AM
YIKES...........

And I thought motorcycle seats were a PITA. I would not want to recover that chair.

Mojo
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on January 20, 2018, 01:32:52 PM
It's an oddity. I read that it is molded styrofoam - and based on the weight I would think that is true.
I figured if I can't do the IB in one piece, I'll make a couple seams. I've seen a few done that way.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: Mojo on January 20, 2018, 01:54:44 PM
I did several motorcycle seats back in the day. One was a breeze as I used All Sport. The rest I panelled using french and fell seams.

To be honest !!! I wouldn't even know where in the heck to begin with that chair. I am wondering if Dennis, Paul, Doyle or Ed have ever done one of these. It would be interesting to know some of the tricks.

Mojo
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: kodydog on January 20, 2018, 02:28:13 PM
The ones I have done were sewn all in one piece and glued onto the frame. Lots of glue. I'm guessing a Styrofoam frame would be upholstered the same way. Does a Styrofoam frame have or need foam padding? Either way be very careful when taking the old fabric off. If you ruin the foam you will have a hard time making the new material smooth. Heat is good when removing the old fabric.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on January 20, 2018, 05:13:09 PM
These chairs are all done in two pieces sewn together. Patterning is the issue. The existing pattern is not what you will get when you take off the cover. Best to pattern all now while still covered in this old vinyl. Doubtful it will all come out good with the inside back as one piece. I would try it but make sure enough vinyl is available to do over if three pieces are needed. If the pattern is right on it will fall together with heat if not it won't. Good luck on this one. It will need to be very tight fitting to get it to work. You will need heat just to get it on. Silicone spray will help some. I think the factory has forms for this type of chair where it is heated and placed in a form to cool. I've always said that but never knew for sure.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: baileyuph on January 20, 2018, 06:10:58 PM
Factory approach:  Only vinyl with the ideal stretch properties are used (not All Sport!which leads to an
other topic alone as to why).
Factory aligns their pattern very specific to that selected stretch vinyl. Even their type of seaming is
part of the equation.  As an additive, a factory is very technical on how much they depend on stretch and
seaming to achieve their fit.

As a note - the factory material stretch parameter gets to be interesting discussion but that is another topic which applies to cloth fabrics as well - probably best for a later discussion.

But to wind up - factories will normally use steam and even slip eze in their processes (marine for example).

Like implicated - very interesting stuff centered around the topic - as it leads to when the process
becomes "molding".

At the custom shop level, this chair can be handled by adding seams in strategic places on the chair -
like a 3 piece inside back/outside back and even a 4 piece inside back (the 4th could be used around
the lower bottom where it wouldn't be seen - the vinyl used has to be considered.

Just a starter,

Doyle
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on January 22, 2018, 08:45:07 PM
Thinking about this piece:

I wondered if maybe cloth/fabric would be a better choice than vinyl.
But am now not too sure of that. Both vinyl and fabric have stretch properties, difference being that vinyl can be heated to stretch a bit more.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on January 22, 2018, 10:10:35 PM
Actually vinyl can be stretched a lot with heat applied carefully. I have heard in the past that when heating vinyl and stretching it a lot it will fail prematurely. I had worried about a booth job I did for a few years past until we redid them and they did not fail due to the heat and stretch which was actually pretty extreem to get them smooth. They were shaped seats. I'd say go for it with a good vinyl and heat it carefully to the point where it is hard to hold. Stretch it up and then over the edge. It might take a couple adjustments.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on January 25, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
LOL

I'm guessing somebody made money on these things.

http://gdurl.com/wNxj

While I'm thinking about it: There are surely many ways to fill the voids in the styrofoam. I see RC plane people are very careful about theirs for obvious reasons. Here, what would you do? All in the matter of expediency.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on January 25, 2018, 08:51:24 PM
I kinda doubt that is a styrofoam frame. But you could use foam in a spray can for insulation use and then when dry shape it with a rasp etc.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on January 26, 2018, 11:07:04 AM
That is exactly what I intended to do, Paul.

And really, this is styrofoam. Thing weighs like 2 lbs. There are two small pieces of wood at the base that the legs are mounted to. Otherwise, it is molded styrofoam. Crazy, huh?

It's called an Overman 'Pod' Chair.

If you meant the legs, those are aluminum.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on February 21, 2018, 10:38:29 PM
I found a turquoise vinyl that i think would be really exceptional on this piece. Buttery soft and just the right color for the period.

My dilemma is this: many times I want to practice. But with what? The only fabric that will act the same way is the one I intend to use. So many times I dive in, and hope that my skills on the sewing machine are up to snuff.
But most often, I do make a big mistake that necessitates more fabric.

And, the margins are slim here so a big mistake could really cost, many times it does.

Any thoughts here are appreciated.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on February 22, 2018, 05:54:52 AM
If the foam will withstand a spray glue I would add a 1/4" skin on foram to smooth things out first. Then pattern the inside in four pieces the forth being a small boxing type piece along the bottom where it breaks at the seat line. This will be the glue on piece for the bottom. Be very careful with registration marks for the inside and outsides as they will have to be perfectly sew together. All seasms for that matter. Make everything a bit tight maybe 1/4 smaller than you normally would when patterning so it has to be stretched on.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: kodydog on February 22, 2018, 08:26:59 AM
Mistakes are inevitable. Some can be avoided and some can't. Its always nice to have a little extra fabric on hand.

We had one customer who bought 2 yards less than requested. When Rose asked why the customer told her, "my friend told me upholsterers always over estimate."

Another customer brought 2 yards less than required. When Rose asked why the customer replied, "that's all they had at Hobby Lobby, and the sales person said it would be enough." >:(
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: SteveA on February 22, 2018, 09:19:50 AM
as time goes on you will accumulate the extras from jobs and have enough similar fabrics to practice on but probably by that time you will take every job head on without even thinking about it.  The extra fabric gets used sometimes in place of using your muslin or straps 
SA
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on February 22, 2018, 06:30:28 PM
MinUph:  "These chairs are all done in two pieces sewn together. Patterning is the issue. The existing pattern is not what you will get when you take off the cover. Best to pattern all now while still covered in this old vinyl. Doubtful it will all come out good with the inside back as one piece."

Ok.. so knowing what you know about me and my work - Think I can do it? Or should I just start with making the IB as 3 pieces?
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on February 22, 2018, 06:35:35 PM
65 I think you work is very good so far. But these chairs are not easy by any means. I doubt they will come out as good as new even in three pieces. In one piece inside and one outside I would not attempt myself. Well I may attempt but I know it wouldn't work. Without original factory patterns and factory process to put on it will not come out like you plan.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on February 23, 2018, 02:37:47 PM
Do you think I could replicate a factory pattern? What would it be? As mentioned earlier they do allow for a specific amount of stretch. I could take my vinyl that I want to use, and measure how much stretch, with and without heat.

Other than that I'm not sure how I would go about it. Certainly I will attempt this job, possibly first with a cheaper vinyl. Maybe the upholstery store has a remnant I could use.

Though I won't be too disappointed if it turns out that it's not something I can reasonably accomplish.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: MinUph on February 23, 2018, 03:10:16 PM
No I don't think you could replicate the factory pattern. And I don't think you can figure the stretch out by measuring how much a piece of vinyl stretches at a given spot. There are just too many different "spots" on the pattern. Factories have a few things we don't have. One is CAD another is trial and error, and other is the original model, and another is how it assembled (upholstered). Do your best and give it a shot. But don't expect one vinyl to behave like another one. That is not going to happen either LOL.
Title: Re: Wrestling Match
Post by: 65Buick on February 23, 2018, 10:15:05 PM
Ok. Well I'll start by making a beeline to the clearance/remnant bin. And once I've sewn it, I'll get a couple of my brawniest friends...