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The Business Of Upholstery => The Business Of Upholstery => Topic started by: Mojo on November 03, 2018, 06:22:39 PM

Title: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 03, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
I hate banks and credit card companies. I was going over our accounts and these damn transaction fees are a killer. I would love to do cash or check orders but it would bankrupt us because no one would do business with us. It is pretty crazy how we have went from a check/cash society to a debit / credit card company.

3 % fees are a killer. I have looked for ways to cut the fee's and have found some companies that are cheaper but they get you in other fee's. They advertise small transaction fees but then tack on other fees. We use Square exclusively and their services are top notch. Our parts company uses their inventory management system and it is integrated with our website store. Works slicker then snot on a door knob.

But those damn fees. :( Do all of you accept CC transactions and who do you use ?

Mojo
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 03, 2018, 08:14:24 PM
  I use square also, 2.75% money next day. The normal merchant accounts are a nightmare. I had one once and the "other" fees are faminonal. Statement fees, transactions fees, access fees, and more. All add up to a bookkeeping nightmare. Square is so simple it is worth the fees. I has a comparison done a couple years ago and the guy was from a processing company. He said until I get to 5k a month then the fees were going to be cheaper using square. I am past that and I still won't switch. I hated all the other charges they had.
  Your fees might be different being online. That is like non swipe (keyed in) I believe.
  It has become a cc world. People like the miles it pays for their vacation travel for some of them.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 04, 2018, 08:27:30 AM
Not the only reason to hate banks - how about 0.01 percent interest - fees for checking - fees for low balance - or over drawn account - lack of enough tellers -  on line software that keeps telling me I need to enter the correct password to see my accounts on line - as if I don't know my password - steering you toward ATMs which I don't care to use - customer service who are always over taxed with customers when you walk in - constant emails telling me how wonderful they are and how do I like all their great services - and an email at the end of the billing cycle telling me my statement for the month has not been received when I mailed it 2 weeks earlier
SA
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 04, 2018, 09:03:34 AM
All of my CC sales are in-store swipes with the person and card present. And since I'm willing to wait an extra day or 2 for funding, my total fee from Square is 1.75%.

Like Paul, I was getting positively raped from some of those other processing companies.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 04, 2018, 10:57:23 AM
Sofa,
  I'd like to know how you get 1.75% from square. All my sales are at the shop or with a card reader. Let me know how you get this. The only way I see to get a lower rate is doing 25000.00 + per month. Maybe your busier than I thought :) I wouldn't mind waiting an extra day.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 04, 2018, 02:07:06 PM
Sorry, typo. I meant 2.75%.

Same day funding, or card not present is an extra 1%.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 05, 2018, 08:31:43 AM
I have found Square to be a very powerful program/service. You can do payroll, run sales reports, dissect sales by day, time of day, by item, etc.
It works awesome for us because I take it on the road with me when I do events and run sales out of our booth. Last year we invested in a square station with register, printer and an Ipad.

I built our inventory list on square and it now helps us with inventory control. I am happy with it but hate paying fee's for anything. Hell I hate paying taxes too. :)

Mojo
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Eric on November 05, 2018, 06:17:17 PM
I use square, but the customer is told upfront, that the job will cost a additional 3% to cover fee. They all agree to it.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 05, 2018, 07:05:21 PM
I use square, but the customer is told upfront, that the job will cost a additional 3% to cover fee. They all agree to it.

I know many people do his. But I don't. Our Dentist does both my wife and I feel it is tacky. I know some will say you have to recover the money spent but if I felt it made that much difference I wouldn't accept cards in the first place. No offence intended to those that charge the fee back to the customer. I just don't see it that way.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: gene on November 05, 2018, 08:49:54 PM
I don't take credit cards so I'm not in this part of the discussion.

Regarding charging 3% to use a credit card, the other side of that is what if someone offers to pay cash and asks for a disocunt, then do you give a cash discount? I don't because I'm doing the same amount of work and my work has a cost/value to it that I do not want to discount. And for me, and I know like Paul's thoughts on charging for using a credit card this may not be the same for everyone, but when someone asks for a cash discount I feel like they are assuming I will not pay tax on the cash payment and therefore they are wanting some of that money not being paid in tax.

gene
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 06, 2018, 10:07:07 AM
My understanding of the law is that a business can legally charge a "convenience fee" for using a credit card if the customer is paying by mail, online, or over the phone.

BUT.....If the customer is present in the store and plunks down a credit card, then it is no longer classified as a convenience fee. It becomes a "surcharge" which is illegal in Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas.

This law applies to private businesses. Government entities are allowed to add a surcharge for using a credit card.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 06, 2018, 11:39:47 AM
I know many people do his. But I don't. Our Dentist does both my wife and I feel it is tacky.
Yeah, but which is tackier? Telling people up front that there will be an extra fee for using a credit card, or just factoring that extra fee in to all of their prices? Which means that people who pay cash are paying extra for a service they're not using.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 06, 2018, 12:34:42 PM
I think it is tackier to hide the fee. As for the legality of the whole fee thing. I know years ago when I had online stores I had merchant account and it was against Visa / MC rules to charge a fee for card use. I think it has changed but am not privy to the rules or laws. I know it is OK to give a discount for cash or check so there are ways to get around this stuff.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 06, 2018, 01:28:55 PM
We keep very close tabs on our overhead and costs. Each product price is calculated with material costs, admin costs, manufacturing costs, shop overhead costs and yes CC costs.

Our shipping costs are calculated at the time of shipment and we charge the customer only for the price of shipping. We do not mark that price up. I ordered some new company T-shirts and hats the other day and I know the actual shipping costs are $ 15. But they charged me $ 25 so they are making money off the back end. I refuse to do this and only bill our customers for the actual cost.

Nothing pisses me off more then a company gouging you on shipping.

Mojo
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Eric on November 06, 2018, 01:35:42 PM
In Wisconsin, as long as I tell them upfront, I can charge the fee. No go if I tell them $100 for job, then add the 3% Many of these clients use cards for points, mileage, etc. that is being feed by the 3% processing fee. I take credit cards because many say, lets go ahead, do you take credit, I didn't bring a check.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: kodydog on November 07, 2018, 08:17:18 PM
We keep very close tabs on our overhead and costs. Each product price is calculated with material costs, admin costs, manufacturing costs, shop overhead costs and yes CC costs.
Mojo

Mojo, my business is very different than yours because ours is all local and yours is nation wide. I can see how you would lose business if you didn't accept credit. We don't and I can't think of a time we have lost a customer because of our policy of cash or check. Extra points for using credit cards is a nice perk, Rose and I use this advantage ourselves but our customers seem to have a "whatever" attitude.

And speaking of gouging, We made an order for thread. Price was too good to be true. They told us a certain color was on back order and would not ship for several months. Rose told them to ship the colors they had in stock and we would reorder later. Several days later the order came as promised. And the next day the back ordered thread arrived. This created double shipping. Which of course turned a great deal into an average deal. Yes I was kinda pissed.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 08, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
We don't and I can't think of a time we have lost a customer because of our policy of cash or check.
I have several commercial accounts that give me their CC number to keep on file. The split second that I shoot the last staple, I run their card (even before I tell them it's ready). Beats the hell outta sending them an invoice and waiting up to 45 days for a check to come through snail mail. 

Do I charge an extra fee for accepting credit cards? Technically, no.....BUT.....merchant fees are factored in to my prices.

As for residential customers. I'm absolutely positive that I get paid a lot quicker by accepting CC's. I don't get all those excuses for delaying pick-up.

And CC users are far less likely to haggle over price.

Besides, if I don't take their CC, that nice furniture store down the street will. 
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 08, 2018, 12:15:05 PM
I have to say I believe more business is done because I accept cards. It is just an educated guess.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 08, 2018, 04:08:53 PM
When I was just out of HS - I worked briefly for an upholsterer who had a big enough store that he could sell furniture.  Like Doc - he had beds but also inexpensive lines of furniture.  He became wealthy from none of that commerce - his key to success was he sold furniture to folks who could not afford to pay up front and had no CC.  He would finance them - He would charge a vig and they would pay him monthly with interest.  One day a week he would go collect - I would drive him and he'd run in and collect his fees.  Sometimes while he was in the house the folks would order more furniture and he'd come running out for the books.   The customers loved him because he trusted them and no one else would. Yes credit works and boosts sales for sure
SA
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 08, 2018, 05:27:34 PM
He became wealthy from none of that commerce - his key to success was he sold furniture to folks who could not afford to pay up front and had no CC.  He would finance them
We had guys here that made a nice living toting their own notes. But that was before CC companies started passing them out like candy. Back in the day, a person had to be pretty far above the poverty line to merit a credit card. So for many people, their only choice was to find a place that offered in-store charge accounts.

I remember buying our wedding rings from a credit jeweler. That was 40 years ago. Only 3 more payments and those babies are all ours!

A small retail business owner who handles his own financing doesn't stand a chance nowadays. Even though he would probably charge a MUCH more honest interest rate.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: gene on November 09, 2018, 07:58:12 AM
"A small retail business owner who handles his own financing doesn't stand a chance nowadays."

Too many people work hard at ripping off others as a way of life. Too many people live with an entitlement mentality and have no sense of responsibility to pay off their own debts.

A person can't pay their bill but they have money for drugs, tattoos, junk food, tickets to concerts, and guns. Who wants to go to some crooks house, or government housing project, and try to collect money?

gene
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 09, 2018, 04:49:13 PM
We're closing in on 40 years and I don't wear a wedding ring - just a watch and a crucifix - never wore any kind of ring.  Her's cost $ 90.00 39 years ago. Only two more payments ! 
Two years ago after putting on a few pounds it was tight on her finger so she put it on a bracelet - the bracelet broke and both items were lost and no clue where.  This year a week before our anniversary she was going through her closet and on the floor were the two pieces of jewelry.  She's since back to her goal weight and the ring fits again.  It was the least expensive piece of jewelry I ever gave her but the only piece that can't be replaced.
SA 
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: kodydog on November 09, 2018, 11:06:26 PM
Going out on a limb here but what did y'all do before you started accepting credit cards. Cash or check, right? At some point you decided to add the convenience of accepting credit cards. And for this "convenience" on a $1000 order you get to pay the credit card company $30. I'm guessing if you made a policy of charging that to the customers invoice more would pay with cash or check. Cash is always my favorite. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 10, 2018, 08:50:59 AM
Cash is always my favorite. Am I missing something?
Again, my reasons for accepting CC's are:

1) Get paid quicker
2) Customer doesn't haggle over price

I'm positive that second bullet point has MORE than compensated for my CC fees over the years.

I'm also finding that many of my customers don't even own a checkbook any more. And they would be reluctant to go to their bank and draw out a large sum of cash for the sole purpose of paying me.

I only have about 20 checks left from a checkbook that I got over 10 years ago. On average, I write less than one check a year.
I would feel naked with less than $1000 in my wallet. I pay cash everywhere I go. But that means that I have to hang on to every little receipt. People are becoming more and more dishonest by nature nowadays. When I pay cash, that money has a mysterious way of vanishing into thin air.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 10, 2018, 09:20:08 AM
Not to forget most folks get points or cash back when they use the card - some want that toaster and it doesn't matter how much they spend to get a gift as long as they get points.  Did any of you save the coupons in cigarette Raleigh packs for example ?  Who cared about their health  - instead save up the coupons for a transistor radio. 
It doesn't matter how you get paid as long as you provide all the choices -  and I can't speak for the rest of you but in case anyone from sales tax or income tax is monitoring - I don't accept cash
SA
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 10, 2018, 09:46:20 AM
I have a lot of customers that will ask "Is it cheaper if I pay (wink-wink) cash?"
I gladly accept cash. But I don't offer any type of discount (such as forgetting about the sales tax).

It's funny how aware people are of CC fees now. Yet back in the day, they blindly paid extra at the grocery store for the privilege of saving those stupid Green Stamps.

As a kid, I saved those Raleigh coupons from my grandfather's cigarette packs. And yup, got me a transistor radio. My grandfather swiped it from me and traded it for a fifth of whiskey.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: gene on November 11, 2018, 09:06:01 AM
I saved Green Stamps from the grocery store when i was a litle kid. No one wanted them so I took them. My mom got the books for me and every week I got the stamps after she went grocery shopping and I stuck them in the books. I would spend hours going through the catalog. I had my eye on that canoe.

After many years of collecting the Green Stamps, my mom took them all away from me so my older sister could get something she wanted from the catalog.

gene
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: kodydog on November 11, 2018, 09:29:55 AM
And yup, got me a transistor radio. My grandfather swiped it from me and traded it for a fifth of whiskey.

After many years of collecting the Green Stamps, my mom took them all away from me so my older sister could get something she wanted from the catalog.
gene


Old people are mean!
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 11, 2018, 09:50:43 PM
We have a mobile RV Tech company that we use for repair work on customer coaches. They only accept checks and cash.
I often wonder just how much business they leave on the table.

We have some customers when they are in for plate installs pay cash, one this week wrote a check but most prefer using a CC.
We would have went bankrupt if we only accepted cash or checks and not CC's. It is just to hard when you are dealing with customers all over the USA.

Green stamps ? Geeesh. You guys are old....:)

Mojo
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 12, 2018, 06:01:52 PM
I thought most here are around pay phone old ?
SA
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: gene on November 12, 2018, 08:46:54 PM
I remember having to get up off the couch to change the TV channel. Today I've got some lady named Alexa that does that for me.

gene
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 14, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Steve:

I am a lot younger then most of these old farts on here. I hit 60 this year. :)

Mojo
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: kodydog on November 14, 2018, 09:56:14 PM
I'm not as old as I look. My hair started turning gray when I was 30. Family curse. (Married to an Italian). Been thinking about getting some of that cream Laura Ingram advertises to smooth the wrinkles in my face. :)
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: SteveA on November 15, 2018, 11:57:16 AM
I don't know who the senior member is here - maybe doc ?   
Anyway my MIL - whose name was Rose - came from Naples - a better part of Italy than my side came from. 

SA
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: sofadoc on November 15, 2018, 02:20:35 PM
I think me, Ed, and Chris are all in the midst of our 60th year on the planet.

It's Gene and Paul that are older'n dirt.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: MinUph on November 15, 2018, 06:12:56 PM
YEa Gene's probably older than my dirt. I'm at 67.
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: kodydog on November 15, 2018, 10:11:42 PM
When Gene was a boy the Dead Sea was only sick. Bada Bing
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: gene on November 15, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
Nope. I've only made 2 more trips around the sun than Mojo.

Have you noticed that the more trips you make around the sun the harder it gets to hang on?

"...the Dead Sea was sick." That's funny!
Title: Re: Credit Card Payments
Post by: Mojo on November 17, 2018, 12:00:12 AM
Paul - 67 ???? Good Lord. You probably have socks as old as Doc and I. :)

Mojo