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Mojo
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« #30 : March 15, 2012, 07:13:32 AM »

Peppy:

I have had no problem with my customers but then RV owners tend to be a very stringent group
that researches the hell out of everything. They have done their research with slide toppers and awnings and when you have fabric that fails you it doesn't take long for the entire RV community to fail you. Like I said earlier, news in the RV world travels real fast.

I belong to several RV forums and two of them are massive. One post on these forums reaches 20 thousand people. It doesn't take long for the word to get around. I market my products with an emphasis on the products I use. There is some education that goes with this, hence my seminars. I find that the more I take the time to educate my customers, the more my business picks up. of course I have had to delve into learning the mechanics  of the roller tubes and extension arms and learn the process of changing out the fabric and dealing with that dreaded torsion spring. Many of my customers come to me with these questions so I try and be prepared.

I try not to bash any products but rather show the differences between mine and theirs, or in my particular case I place a heavy emphasis on the materials I use. I do not bash Sunbrella in any of my advertising nor on my web site. I feel it is unprofessional. Instead I highlight the benefits of using Sattler or Recacril fabrics and Solarfix threads. That is what separates me from the competition.

It just so happens to be that in the RV world, Sunbrella is a dirty word. I do not have to bash their name as my customers do a good job of it all by themselves. :) This is why I make sure that I use the Recassens and Sattler sew-in tags on all my products. It keeps me from getting shot by a customer who thinks I may have used Sunbrella on their awnings or toppers. :)

This entire move into the RV World has been very entertaining not to mention it has had a HUGE learning curve. I thought Marine people were picky. The typical RV'er is all about brands and getting the best they can for their " Babies " ( motorcoaches ).

Chris
Mojo
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« #31 : March 15, 2012, 07:25:33 AM »

Chris,

Thanks for your candid feedback - I agree 100%.  FYI, you know Outdura is a Sattler product now.

Take care,
Andrew

Andrew:

I have looked at the Outdura and it is an awesome product. I love the hand it has and it enjoys an awesome reputation in the marine world. Unfortunately its price is much higher then what I am paying for Sattler and Recacril. If I went to Outdura I would have to have another price increase and I have already raised my prices this year once. I am now just above my competitions prices so I need to hold the line to keep from driving business away.

The other option would be to swallow the cost myself which would result in a direct hit on my margins. That is something I am not willing to do. :) But I still like the fabric and would probably use it on my own boat.

Mike and June are my go-to Marine experts and have vast amounts of experience working with all the different fabrics. I haven't a clue with some of the marine fabrics out there so MiamiMike sends me a small cut now and then off the end of a roll to work with to help get me up to speed. It has helped as every now and then I get a call to do a vinyl type awning or slide topper. I used Top Gun, Tough Stuff and Weathermax all based on small cuts he sent me.

If I still have questions about material I get a hold of June or Mike. MiamiMike also provides me with up to date info on what is working well in the Florida climate. But to get back to your post, I really do like the Outdura stuff. :)

Chris
ahkahn
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« #32 : March 17, 2012, 09:07:46 AM »

Chris,

I agree with your point on the pricing differences.  I'm working on something right now to overcome that with Outdura.

Keep in mind, you can feel free to use me as a resource, too!

-Andrew
Mike
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« #33 : March 17, 2012, 08:53:54 PM »

Chris you wre usedg strictly recsacril i belive at ontime  promoting it with no streach   , but notw you use satlrer also  why does it hav no steach also i hacnt used it but have outdura and ive seen streach though andrew says it satler also . i have used recacril alot.  on one boat i made a large cover on a deckboat for a dealor then displayed ythe boat on the side of a inclne with the cover n and at theodd angle rainwater collecter on a corner and streached a bowle shape like sunbrella the i had to tighten to fix best i could

Mojo
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« #34 : March 17, 2012, 10:07:52 PM »

I switched to Sattler mainly because of the marketability of their fabric within the industry I sell within ( RV's ). Also it does have a bit better water column then Recacril. ( I am going to have to have Miami Mike jump on here to answer the water column bit ). I also felt the Sattler handled better and machined easier. In other words I like the hand of Sattler better then Recacril. I am doing a large order right now in Recacril because I could not get the tweed color I needed in Sattler. I cleaned Miami Corp out of it completely. So I went with the Recacril tweed which is identical.

The other reason why I went with Sattler is because of the industry I am working within ( RV's ). The big million dollar buses use a lot of Sattler on their window awnings so I can promote and market my product using them as a reference. When you mention Newell or Prevost to an RV'er their eyes widen and their ears perk up as they know they are all about quality and the best in materials. I also admit I get much better factory support from Sattler then I do from Recacril. As I stated previously, Sunbrella has such a bad reputation among RV'ers that if I used their fabric I would lose the majority of my business. Among marine people Sunbrella is the second coming. Among RV'ers it is like Satan entering the room. :)

One other reason why I went to Sattler is because my competition is still using Sunbrella while another switched to Recacril two years ago. I wanted to find a premium difference between my product and theirs. Sattler and Solarfix did the trick for me.

I will e-mail MiamiMike and have him address your stretch issue with Recacril along with addressing the issue with the water column thingie and the difference between the two fabrics. There is not much difference to be honest. I believe the weave is nearly identical and both are made in Europe using premium yarns ( Recacril - Spain and Sattler - Austria ). But there is a huge difference between both of these fabrics and Sunbrella.

I have pushed out so many slide toppers I lost track of the count. I have never had a report or complaint on stretch. And slide toppers are a flat piece of fabric.

Chris
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« #35 : March 18, 2012, 08:34:23 PM »

I will not state that something is better than the other. But every fabric has its place. We now sell 3 Acrylics Recacril, Outdura and now Sattler. Recacril and Sattler Have little to no stretch because of the Ring Spun yarn and it's a smaller yarn. This helps the weaving to be much tighter. To the best of my knowledge the Outdura has the highest in tear strength over all. This includes several other lines I will not say.

Mike you said you used Recacril on a cover and had a pool of water and it stretched out? I have not heard of that before. Not saying it could not happen, but I have not heard this before.

Outdura / Sattler> they are totally two different fabrics. Yes Sattler bought Outdura a little over a year ago. But these fabrics are different. Outdura is made in North Carolina and Sattler is made in Austria. Sattler has a smaller yarn and a tighter weave, Outdura is a larger Yarn and is a little stronger. Again, Outdura is the strongest tear strength over all Acrylics. Over 300 lb. Ask you rep what the tear strength of your Acrylic is. See if you can get it.

You can look on the back of the sample cards to see all the info on Recacril, Outdura and Sattler.


WeatherMax 80 WeatherMax FR WeatherMax LT Recacril Design Line Recacril Stripes Outdura Outdura Stripes Outdura Weblon Regatta, Holiday Top Notch Top Notch Elite Top Gun Vista Odyssey III Softouch Strata Glass Crystal Clear OSea Glass Regalite Glass Sattler Nautimar Soluna
Miami Mike
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« #36 : March 18, 2012, 08:46:53 PM »

PS: By the way I'm in Florida now. Just a few miles north of Jacksonville. I will not make it by your shops this week  :( Mike, Chris or June.  But i will be back into Florida soon.

WeatherMax 80 WeatherMax FR WeatherMax LT Recacril Design Line Recacril Stripes Outdura Outdura Stripes Outdura Weblon Regatta, Holiday Top Notch Top Notch Elite Top Gun Vista Odyssey III Softouch Strata Glass Crystal Clear OSea Glass Regalite Glass Sattler Nautimar Soluna
Mojo
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« #37 : March 18, 2012, 09:02:20 PM »

PS: By the way I'm in Florida now. Just a few miles north of Jacksonville. I will not make it by your shops this week  :( Mike, Chris or June.  But i will be back into Florida soon.

This time plan to stick around to buy me lunch or dinner. I let you off the hook the last time. Not this time though. :)

Looking forward to seeing you again. I am really sorry I am missing the big open house and party in Jacksonville. I wanted to get yup there and meet the guys and see the new warehouse but I will be in Goshen, Indiana for the week doing another bloody seminar. :)

Chris
Miami Mike
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« #38 : March 18, 2012, 09:09:06 PM »

I hate to hear that :o  lunch who stops for lunch anymore?

WeatherMax 80 WeatherMax FR WeatherMax LT Recacril Design Line Recacril Stripes Outdura Outdura Stripes Outdura Weblon Regatta, Holiday Top Notch Top Notch Elite Top Gun Vista Odyssey III Softouch Strata Glass Crystal Clear OSea Glass Regalite Glass Sattler Nautimar Soluna
Mike
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« #39 : March 19, 2012, 07:32:17 AM »

I is plenty f outfits from mike.
Oh snd lunch I try to never miss it usually it gets so layed  back it's hard to work after lunch

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