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: Sunbrella vs Outdura  ( 12521 )
mike802
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« : May 11, 2012, 12:33:39 PM »

Can anyone give me some feed back on the two?  I have a customer who wants to have some cushions upholstered for his sail boat in Sunbrella, the cushions are located below deck.  but Miami only carries Outdura.  I would like to keep the sale, but I might have to find a supplier for Sunbrella If my customer is steadfast on staying with it.

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JuneC
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« #1 : May 11, 2012, 01:00:31 PM »

Is he wanting Sunbrella marine canvas like you use for bimini's or Sunbrella outdoor furniture fabric?  I'm doing my dining room chairs in Sunbrella furniture fabric simply because the room has sliding doors facing East and gets a huge amount of UV exposure.  I want a fabric that doesn't fade, but looks like it belongs in the house, rather than on an awning. 

If he's wanting to use marine canvas, then I don't think there's much difference between Sunbrella and Outdura for that application.  Either should work fine. 

June

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MinUph
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« #2 : May 11, 2012, 01:05:06 PM »

Personally I like Outdura for cushion work. It is basically the same as Sunbrella 100% Acrylic. But it doesn't stretch. There isn't as many patterns to choose from and I think Outdura might be a slight bit thinner than Sunbrella furniture grade. Price is close to equal so that isn't much of a deciding factor.

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mike802
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« #3 : May 11, 2012, 05:06:05 PM »

He wants the marine grade. He was also thinking about the Sunbrella plus, which I guess has a vinyl bonded to the back side, but he wasn't totally sold on the plus fabric.

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Peppy
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« #4 : May 11, 2012, 06:24:50 PM »

Sunbrella plus would be a waste of money for cushions if you ask me. Either Outdura or Sunbrella would do fine.

Funny you say that Outdura doesn't have stretch. I hadn't ever used it until we bought a bunch at an auction recently. I thought it was quite stretchy building boat tops with it. Everything turned out great but I didn't like it. Seemed much softer and thinner than Sunbrella. I think it would probably be the better of the two for seating.

*edit* Sunbrella plus doesn't have vinyl backing, that's Seamark. Plus has a backing that kind of looks like iron on interfacing, a whiteish flocking thats supposed to increase waterproofing but still breath.
« : May 12, 2012, 07:22:23 AM Peppy »

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Darren Henry
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« #5 : May 12, 2012, 12:38:45 PM »

Personally I think Your customer has just enough knowledge to be dangerous. I think he is "over building"  these cushions based on what he has read.I would  use Sunbrella furniture . That is what is is designed for , and it is more comfortable than the boat topping or outdura.

If you use Outdura: I had a problem with the blue in that the colour is different if you turn the fabric. i.e a piece cut up the roll looks different than a piece cut across the roll.

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« #6 : May 12, 2012, 02:20:35 PM »

Sunbrella has a name... that's about where it ends.  Kind of like Naugahyde was years ago for vinyl.  

Both are solution dyed acrylic, most of their acrylic fiber comes from the exact same producer (Dolan).  There are only 2 and a half solution-dyed acrylic producers in the world, and Dolan is by far the largest producer.  The fading warranties that they offer are actually a passthrough from the fiber producer.

The only thing that Glen Raven, Outdura, Recasens, etc. do is weave their own fabric from the fiber.  Their weaving and finishing capabilities are what separate each from each other, and that's where the differences begin.  Some would contend that one or the other is the "best", but what quantifies "best"?  Depending on what a customer cares about, different things can quantify best.  

If you mean longest time before they stretch/sag, you need to look at how they're woven (Sunbrella has developed a poor reputation for this).  If you mean longest lifetime for fading, they'll all fall into same realm, because the fiber is made by the same company (for the most part).  If you mean made in America, Outdura is the only one who can claim 100% made in America, as some Sunbrella is made domestically and some overseas.  

With all of that said, and for me, we distribute both Recacril and Outdura...  we used to distribute Sunbrella, and dropped it many years ago.  I am partial to Outdura because it's made in the USA, they strictly use Dolan fiber (known to be the best), they are extremely quality-oriented, and the people that are involved in the company from the top down are top notch, courteous, professional, and genuinely care about the product they put out.  Not saying the others aren't, but I can tell you that we've dealt directly with 4 different acrylic manufacturers (Glen Raven, Recasens, Sunfield, Outdura) and the people at Outdura really shine.  

I hope this helps coming straight from a distributor.

Best regards,
Andrew
Mike
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« #7 : May 12, 2012, 06:53:59 PM »



If you use Outdura: I had a problem with the blue in that the colour is different if you turn the fabric. i.e a piece cut up the roll looks different than a piece cut across the roll.
Do you meen with the fabric turned 90 with the frai. Going a different direction. I learned. Ot to do that with us. Della years Go as the shade changed.  
I love outdura I fi d it as good as us brew maybe a bit tighter. Weave.  
Outdura also has. For furniture grade fabric plain and with pro te that I  would rather use  
It's what I used on my salon when I had my. Suisse as it had Lot of light
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« : May 14, 2012, 06:28:15 AM Mike »

Grebo
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« #8 : May 14, 2012, 04:49:32 AM »

Peppy, I think you might be confusing sunbrella plus with something else.
Unless the stuff over there is different to mine.  ;D
 ;)  I used to use a fare bit of it, it doesn't have a backing, it is just a coating, you can just about see the difference in the face & backside. Supposed to be more waterproof than the uncoated.
No I wouldn't use it for cushions it's a bit stiff..

Suzi
« : May 14, 2012, 04:50:23 AM Grebo »

Peppy
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« #9 : May 14, 2012, 05:20:24 AM »

No Suzi, that's what I meant. Just described it badly I guess. The picture in my head and what gets typed don't always match ;)

I was reading up on Recasens a bit ago out of curiosity. I seem to remember their website saying they bought Outdura recently. I guess there's less and less difference between brands. As time goes by there'll be one manufacturer with a few flavours.

All these fabrics are much the same but also different. Kind of like how all sewing machines make a lock stitch, but some lock stitches are better than others (my old timey treadle machine's stictch 'locks' up after you pull out 20 or so stitches)

 I read Outdura uses a thicker fibre than others giving it a stronger tear strength. Also maybe why it frays so much?

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« #10 : May 14, 2012, 11:55:29 AM »

Peppy,

Recasens did not buy Outdura.  Outdura was purchased last year by Sattler. 

As I posted earlier, Outdura uses the same fiber the others do, and has a comparable tear strength.  Top Notch has a significantly higher tear strength than the acrylics, but that's because it is a polyester, not an acrylic.

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« #11 : May 14, 2012, 03:08:18 PM »

Peppy,

Recasens did not buy Outdura.  Outdura was purchased last year by Sattler. 

As I posted earlier, Outdura uses the same fiber the others do, and has a comparable tear strength.  Top Notch has a significantly higher tear strength than the acrylics, but that's because it is a polyester, not an acrylic.

-Andrew

Oops!! Sorry, my mistake! I guess I should post after my coffee's perked!

Rereading it maybe sounds like I'm hard on outdura. I don't mean to be. My recent outdura jobs turned out fine in the end, but seemed touch and go in the during. You like what you know, right? I have ten years experience with Sunbrella. A different cloth behaves differently. The seams on the outdura seemed way more 'pucked' and bias stitches seemed wierdly elongated or something. But it all came out in the end.

Any cloth has strengths and weaknesses. One end per inch difference is an entirely different fabric.

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« #12 : May 14, 2012, 03:47:22 PM »

I used a lot of coastguard before it was Dickson as they were 60" and years ago it was a better price then sunbrella 60" I never even buy. 46" anymore but I did a lot of smaller. Stow beam. BOats then.
Then sunbrella de ised t buy coastguard   I liked it I like and use slot of outdura and like Recacrill also. It I still see streach. Perhaps the puckers seams has somthing to do with thread  tention peppy I don't have that trouble.

Then a company unite. Was. BOught by John Boyle  glen raved bought Boyle and a strip for tri V
Should have been asboyle ;)

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« #13 : May 14, 2012, 06:56:56 PM »

Coulda been the tension Mike. Or 'operator error'. Turned out good at any rate.


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« #14 : May 15, 2012, 07:05:22 AM »

I started out using Recacril. I liked the fabric and it gave me an edge in my market. All the other topper and awning makers were still using Sunbrella so I built a marketing edge around Recacril. Then two things happened. Miami started carrying Sattler and and a couple of my competitors switched to Recacril after they begun having complaints from coach owners about the horrific stretch they had on slide toppers made with Sunbrella.

I did some research and then switched to Sattler to regain my competitive edge. I pay a buck or so more per yard for Sattler but I love the way it handles and machines while making toppers. Maybe it is just me but the " hand " on Sattler seems different then Recacril.

Thankfully none of my competitors have gone to Solarfix or Tenara thread. Since 80 % of my business is derived from broken Poly thread Solarfix gives me a huge edge in the market. My use of Solarfix ( along with Sattler fabric ) sells my jobs to customers.

I booked 3 orders from customers at the recent rally who have two year old slide toppers made with Sunbrella and Poly thread. All three are stretched out, deformed and the thread is broken. If my competitors ever switch to Sattler and Solarfix I am going to be in trouble. At that point I am going to have to sell my work on my good looks and charm and both of those have been hopelessly lost with age. :)

Chris
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