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| | |-+  Sunbrella vs Outdura
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: Sunbrella vs Outdura  ( 13138 )
ahkahn
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« #15 : May 15, 2012, 07:19:19 AM »

Mojo,

Awesome story - it's nice to hear a testimonial like that. 
 

Peppy,

I couldn't agree more!

-Andrew
Mike
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« #16 : May 15, 2012, 07:47:23 AM »

Mojo with the toppers not being easy to remove kinda permanent I'm surprised they don't use tenara. 
With a boat canvas it easy to remove and resew.  If a customers asks I alway tell them to up ost  barge of the thread can. E saved if they don't mind bringing it to  be resewn
So you've. Ever seen a shrunk topper only streached I've see. E Ty of  adult shrunk sunbrella covers and tops morse covers  its probly because they are removed and have the chandelier to shrink

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« #17 : May 16, 2012, 07:27:24 AM »

The word I got from an industry expert was that the awning manufacturers use the cheap poly thread knowing it will break in a couple years. They rely on repeat fabric replacement as part of their revenue stream.

Pretty damn sad when you consider that the owner of a quad slide coach can pay $ 800.00 just for the removal of the old and installation of the new fabric. This is one reason why my business has been so good.

But despite being extremely busy and having to sew 6 days a week to keep up I am a small fish in a big pond. Consider this - I only serve two coach owners associations and they are not the largest of the many out there. This is why I turn down all requests to attend rallys from other associations as well as I keep my name out of sight as much as possible with other associations. The two I service keep me so busy I could never handle another owners association. I avoid the FMCA shows and rally's like the plaque. I would need a team of stitchers if I attended their rallies or advertised with them.

Outside of providing fabric replacement I also support the associations at their rallys by doing seminars on toppers and awnings as well as providing technical support in awning/topper assemblies.

Maybe once I have played these two associations out and when business slows down to a crawl I will expand into other associations - one at a time. Until then I am in hiding. :)

Chris
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« #18 : May 16, 2012, 07:40:30 AM »

Mike:

I still have not figured out Sunbrella. I cannot get a handle on it. I get the chance sometimes to inspect the old toppers made with Sunbrella. Most are stretched out badly. But I have seen a few that looked as if they shrunk.

I am wondering if maybe different climates have something to do with this. My customers are located all over the lower 48. The vast majority though come from owners who spent time in California, Arizona, Nevada and Florida - all sunny climates where UV rays kill the Poly thread. In these cases the old fabric seems to all be stretched.

In the cases I have seen shrinkage it has all been in the length and not the width. In other words it shrinks up from the ends. The two sides that wrap around the roller tubes all seem to stretch. Like I said I cannot get a handle on it. I do not know if it was improper installation or what. The killer for the toppers is the water pooling on top of the fabric. Some are so big that I have estimated that 40 - 50 lbs of water can pool on top of them after a heavy rain. This is why I use double row stitching around the entire perimeter and use Solarfix. I seen a lab test where Poly thread lost nearly half its strength over a 3 year period.

I did have the chance to get on top of a couple of my customers buses who have my toppers. I am very pleased with the way the Recacril has held up. No stretch or shrinkage. I just started using Sattler less then a year or so ago so it is to early to know how that will perform but I am guessing it will perform as good or better then the Recacril.

Chris
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« #19 : May 16, 2012, 08:23:16 AM »

I've found that all Sunbrella is not created equal (my opinion).  Different colors - probably produced from different fiber manufacturers - have a different hand, SEEM to have a different weight - even though it's all stated as a 9 oz acrylic, and hold up differently.  I've seen 20 year old Sunbrella covers that look like they were made last year and some 2 year old pieces that look 10 years old. 

I've made only one cover with Recacril (for our own boat) and so far I'm not impressed.  It sewed up beautifully, but doesn't seem to keep the rain out and we've been stuck in a monsoon pattern (inches and inches!) for a month.  Rain mists through it more easily than Sunbrella it would appear, though I haven't been under it personally in a downpour.  All I see is the water in the cockpit that HAD to come through.

One of us, when time permits, needs to unweave the various makes and pattern the weave on paper.  I'll bet then we could see just where the stretch is made possible and how much so.  One thing I didn't like about Recacril as well was how easily it unraveled after cutting (regular scissors).  I had a hard time getting binding on the seams before they were all ragged.  I doubt that's the weave - probably just the finish they put on (or don't put on) after weaving. 

June

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« #20 : May 16, 2012, 11:31:00 AM »

One of us, when time permits, needs to unweave the various makes and pattern the weave on paper.  I'll bet then we could see just where the stretch is made possible and how much so.  One thing I didn't like about Recacril as well was how easily it unraveled after cutting (regular scissors).  I had a hard time getting binding on the seams before they were all ragged.  I doubt that's the weave - probably just the finish they put on (or don't put on) after weaving. 

June

Art school to the rescue! I got a Material Art and Design degree in textiles. I wove many a fancy dish rag. I believe all 'waterproof' canvas is warp faced. Meaning the threads you see on the cloth are the ones wound around the loom. The weft is buried inside the warp and isn't seen. Unraveling is a feature of this type of cloth. The amount of unravel is dependant on how many ends per inch there are (weft threads) how many picks (warp threads) there are determines the tightness of the fabric. Please don't take this as gospel, it's been a while....

I agree with you about the different colours feeling different. The sunbrella guy did tell me some thread colours came from Europe and some came from China. Personally I think the ones from China would be better, since they're likely allowed to use the really good chemicals.

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« #21 : May 16, 2012, 08:41:32 PM »

When I was in NH I used to do a lot of aft curtians here none.
Tou know like this
http://www.bayviewcanvas.com/files/31_sea_ray_sport_top.jpg

I alway due to size would  see a seam up the center with two runs top to bottom
Anyway I Finnish with the act. An as nice and tight  then I'd see the boat a few month later and it had saved Nd. Is rather the. A nice tight cover with a straight  or er it was. Us Ed sagging  streached
 It now here I don't know if it's the heat but I've seen many co moot covers with the fabric run the same front to back that have shrunk. D it hard or inposible to snap all  or any of the rest snaps.
Recacrill I hear is not susposed to streach. It I've seen it streach I havnt seen it shrink yet.   On my boat I have outdura and I'm happy so far. I also havnt been call ight in a soaker under it yet. I  head for home when it looks sketchy

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« #22 : May 16, 2012, 08:51:19 PM »

Art school to the rescue! I got a Material Art and Design degree in textiles. I wove many a fancy dish rag. I believe all 'waterproof' canvas is warp faced. Meaning the threads you see on the cloth are the ones wound around the loom. The weft is buried inside the warp and isn't seen. Unraveling is a feature of this type of cloth. The amount of unravel is dependant on how many ends per inch there are (weft threads) how many picks (warp threads) there are determines the tightness of the fabric. Please don't take this as gospel, it's been a while....

TAG!    :D  You're "IT"...  :P  I'm volunteering you to do the analysis - in the off-season, of course.  I can send you several samples of new and old Sunbrella just to see if there's a difference and some Recacril.  I don't have any Sattler.  Maybe Mojo can send you some of that. 

Mike, I do believe my Recacril cover has stretched a bit, but probably not as bad as Sunbrella does. 

June

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people."

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ahkahn
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« #23 : May 17, 2012, 07:31:10 AM »

Peppy, et al,

None of the acrylics are "waterproof".  They are "water-repellant".  That's why products like 303 and Aqua-Tite exist, to restore that water repellency.  Heavy rains and direct water pressure will always come through regardless of whether it was Sunbrella (new or old), Recacril, Outdura, or another. 

Waterproof would be a Top Gun, Odyssey, Aqualon, or any of the other "coated" fabrics.  That's why they require a vent and acrylics do not.

-Andrew
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« #24 : May 17, 2012, 03:39:10 PM »

Sorry Andrew, I said 'waterproof' as a lazy shorthand. And that's why I put it in quotes. Water-shedding? Water-mostly-keeping-outing?

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ahkahn
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« #25 : May 17, 2012, 03:44:41 PM »

Haha... no problem, Peppy...  8)
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