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: Recession? What recession.  ( 6304 )
byhammerandhand
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"By hammer and hand, all arts do stand."


« #15 : July 17, 2012, 12:04:36 PM »

I was thinking about the politicians this morning when there was a talk show on the latest LIBOR issue.   Sometimes I wish we could just throw them all out.   But I grew up on the business end of a hoe on a farm and fear that it would just sprout a whole new crop of weeds.

A friend sent me this, http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheTbwsDailyShow/~3/p6ab-OUFzR8/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email

Keith

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas A. Edison
bobbin
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« #16 : July 21, 2012, 10:52:44 AM »

I think "bailing out" GM was a smart move.  Did I I like it? unhuh! I was schooled that smart businesses look 25-35 yrs. down the road and make their "course corrections" before they're faced with driving off a cliff.  GM didn't, clearly! they kept building gas-guzzling behemoths in the SUV category so they didn't have to meet EPA standards.  They used sales as a rationale to capitulate to union demands... .  And, what a surprise, the "legacy costs" of the ageing group of dedicated (and deserving!) GM retirees added thousands to the price of a new car; the very thing they were no longer interested in building!!!  Clearly, the big boys with private elevators were utterly clueless (what a surprse!).  But, if we hadn't bailed them out what would have happened to the rolls of the utterly dependent/on the margin retirees (and there are plenty of them)?  They would have wound up on the public dole anyway.  I think putting tax payers' monies into manufacturing on the scale of GM was the lesser of two evils, Kody..  I also think that the good taxpayers' investment ought to be fully repaid with interest.  We gave and so they ought to pay!

Mojo, I have a number of good friends who happen to be Canadian.  I've NEVER met a Canadian who was unhappy with their health care system.  EVER.  I am amazed at the misconceptions so many Americans have about their system.  If you need the procedure you can have it.  But if your need isn't critical you have to wait.  I see nothing wrong with that, personally.  But when you look at who pays for advertising on our commercial TV networks during the "news" hour it's pretty clear that an honest portrayal of "their" medicine will never be beamed to the households who either refuse or can't afford to pay for cable TV in our country.  We don't receive accurate information about how those "soc--list" systems work (prolly why I can't even type the word on this site).    It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why. 

There is no such thing as "free enterprise" or a "free market" (and that's what "capitalism" is), Kody.  And as long as K Stret money is freely a aivailable to our "democratic representatives" and corporations "are people" there never will be.  Shut off the TV and read more, it's our only hope.  (start with Vanity Fair).
Eric
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« #17 : July 21, 2012, 06:04:54 PM »

"I well understand the foolishness of over-regulation, but when the Tea Baggers want to do away with SS and Medicare and tell us to "trust" that de-regulation and "free markets" will fix everything... sorry! I'm not buyin' it!"
Please provide factual proof to backup your misinformed statment.
Citigroup, B.O.A. and other banks have paid back with intrest(I did not favor bailing them out).
G.M. which was a union bailout still has not paid back. They and Chrysler should have been left to die.
Lastly my wife works in a hospital, they have canadians who are here because of the health care system up there.
Eric
kodydog
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« #18 : July 21, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »

Vanity Fair are you serious. you want me to get my political news from a pop culture magazine. If that is what Vanity Fair says about capitalism they are wrong. I canceled my satellite TV 5 years ago. And I wish more people would do the same and stop getting their news from sources like entertainment tonight, CNN and MSNBC. I love to read. Has anyone ever read a little book called Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. For a really good economic read try Dr. Walter E. Williams, PhD; is an American economist, commentator, and academic. He is the John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University. He will make your head spin.

Get ready folks here it comes. After Dec 2012 the gov raises taxes on unearned income another 3.8% to help pay for the future social health care. That's on top of taxes we already pay for investments like stock dividends, sale of a second home or private pensions and annuities. Some could say, but Kodydog you didn't really earn that money. But I took money I did earn, I took the risk, and I'm the one that invested it. A lot of people took a big hit on their investments these last couple years and the government doesn't make it any easier to build it back up.

Some could say that only rich people have investments like that. Not true. Plenty of hard working self employed people have to invest in their own retirements if they don't want to depend on the government for a meager living if and when they get to retire.

Some will say, if we could only raise taxes on the rich we could balance the deficit. President Clinton said it him self, a short time ago, "you could tax me at 100 percent and you wouldn’t balance the budget”.


There is no such thing as "free enterprise" or a "free market" (and that's what "capitalism" is), Kody.  And as long as K Stret money is freely a aivailable to our "democratic representatives" and corporations "are people" there never will be.  Shut off the TV and read more, it's our only hope.  (start with Vanity Fair).

If what we have is not a free market then it must be a government run market and that is scary. That's not even social-ism that's communism.

I have a good customers from Canada. Her husband is a Doctor. She said they fled because the system is so screwed up. 3 month waiting lists. The government chooses who will get what service. Her sister has cancer and they simply told her to go home and get her affairs in order. She said when Canadians need a serious operation they come to America.

Another costumer from Germany. Spoke with a thick accent. He couldn't stop going on about what a great country it is. When I asked him about public health care he became silent. I asked him how much a doctor makes there. He said less than a cab driver. He said medical school is free but as soon as they graduate they try to come to America. I asked him what incentive a collage student has to become a doctor. He said the best and brightest choose another vocation like engineering.

If you want to see a failed social-est country simply look at Grease. People there are protesting in the streets because government wants to take away some of the entitlements they can no longer afford.

Some will say, hay Kodydog enough of this political BS. This is an upholstery web site. But as a business man I believe the next election is going to come down to free enterprise vs social-ism.

There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html
Mojo
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I'm Always In Trouble


« #19 : July 22, 2012, 06:57:13 AM »

There are so many rumors and misinformation about Canada and other Sotic health programs. But the proof is in the pudding. If our system is so great and everyone wants to have a health system like ours and everyone rushes to the USA for treatment then why are we 27th for longevity ? In other words why do people in these terrible health systems live longer ?

Yes there are waiting lists for elective surgeries in Canada/Australia/GB. What happens is someone who has been walking around on bad knees for 5 years decides they want to get them fixed and have to wait 6 months. Never mind they spent the last 5 years with bad knees. Now they want to be moved right to the front of the line because they said so.

Not one of my support group members from other countries has died because they have all gotten amazingly quick and accurate medical care for our diseases. Yet I have watched 5 members die here in the USA because they could not afford the high dollar meds. One large oncology group in the USA and the hospital flat turned down treatment to a friends wife who had cancer. She died by the time she found help through some government program. It took them two months to intervene and by then it was to late.

Three weeks ago one of my mates in Australia converted to Acute Leukemia. He was typed, matched, hospitalized, prepped, nuked and ready for his transplant in 72 hours. My American friend who had the same thing happen to him waited a week while the powers to be figured out who would pay for it all and then another week of arguments between insurance companies and the University hospital. They wasted several days arguing over who was going to pay for the typing and matching services. In the meantime his disease advanced and he was to weak for the transplant and he died.

I was in Australia a couple years ago and needed a blood test done to check my INR/PT levels. I wasn't feeling well and figured that my clotting factor was off. I had no Doctor there and was not part of their health system. It took them 15 minutes to get an order for the test and to perform it. This same test in the USA would have taken me 24 hours while they searched a doctor down to give the order and then another half a day waiting for the lab to contact me for an appointment. The Aussies charged me $ 20. In the USA it costs me $ 35 for the same test.

Because my support group contains thousands of patients from all over the world I get to see first hand just how treatments and their protocols are handled elsewhere in the world. There is very little difference between the USA and other countries except that they get the job done quicker during emergencies and they use the same drugs. And it is done a whole helluva lot cheaper.

If you don't think we have  a problem here consider this - It took me 1 month of waiting for approvals for my first round of chemo. The drug they used cost $ 4,000 for a one month supply. In other countries they typically get this drug to the patient in 48 hours and at a cost of $ 500. The problem we have here in the USA is our system is a for profit system. Profits come before life. Yet they talk about death panels here. Hell they already have them.

If anyone thinks we have an amazing health system I invite them to go join a support group for cancer or leukemia victims and then sit back and listen to the horror stories of the patients in the USA who are turned away from treatment because they cannot afford it and have no insurance. You wont hear any canned messages from a political party or third party rumors but rather the truth right from the patients themselves.

Chris
kodydog
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« #20 : July 22, 2012, 09:15:34 AM »

Chris I can see your point and truly feel sympathy for your friends with this terrible disease.

My question is do you really think health care will get better under our government control? Remember their not shutting down the insurance companies. Their simply forcing all Americans to buy health insurance and at the same time forcing insurance companies to cover things they have never covered before. Insurance companies have already raised their prices because the government has forced them to cover preexisting conditions and cover children who live with their parents up to the age of 26. Very soon they will have to cover things like fertility treatments, chemical sensitivities, a year's leave of absence for fathers after the birth of a child, attention deficit disorder, massages, aromatherapy, watching MSNBC, sex change operations, gender reassignment surgery, gender re-reassignment surgery. With the governments help the insurance companies are going to have a profit bonanza. Imagine owning a company that the government says every citizen must use.

The sad thing is we will no longer be able to shop for a policy that fits our lifestyle and budget because all policies will have the same coverage and cost the same. Expensive.

Remember this is the same government who has screwed up Social Security and has no plans to reform it. It would be political suicide to reform it. The same Government that misplaces $300 to $500 billion dollars each year. They have no idea where it went.

Some governments have figured out social heath care and some have not. Some governments have figured out how to streamline the whole process. I can't imagine our government doing that. The red tape alone would be mind boggling. I'm not ready to trust our government to take over health care.
« : July 22, 2012, 09:40:26 AM kodydog »

There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html
Mojo
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I'm Always In Trouble


« #21 : July 22, 2012, 03:51:39 PM »

Ed:

Personally I think this new healthcare law will be another huge boondoggle. The government as you pointed out has never gotten anything right. They wont get this right either.

I do not know what the answer is but profiting off someones sickness and misery is a real shame. When profits are put before life itself then we know as a Nation we have sunk to the depths of greed and no longer have the compassion we should as a nation.

I am very conservative on many issues but health care is one where I am not. I hope for the day when people, it they become sick, can get cured and not loose their homes, savings, cars and everything else they have worked for while filing for bankruptcy.

I should also state that I am insured through my employer where I retired. I am insured to the hilt as a matter of fact and it costs me nothing. I am one of the fortunate ones. It is the people who have no insurance or cannot afford it that bothers me.

One of the big laughs that came from the far right was the term " Death Panels ". Excuse me but is that what we currently have when insurance companies tell you to go pound sand because you have an existing condition ?

To answer your question I think they will turn this new health care system into one big clustered mess.

Chris
baileyuph
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« #22 : July 22, 2012, 07:51:10 PM »

I have a question, how much should a person in the health field be paid?  A medical doctor for example, a surgion as another example.  How many years and what amount of money does it take to qualify to treat people with life threatening issues?

Then, what is their operating overhead?  They have nurses, office expense, liability insurance, and on and on, you know what I am relating to.  This focus is only on the MD, but one must be mindful there is the hospital expense and the staff to support it all that goes on there.

Then, moving forward, is it being suggested that all the medical support for people who can't afford or have insurance should be shouldered by the government  or at a discounted price, or even for free to a patient?

I have heard politicians in our governments, especially at the state and federal level, are pretty well healed and what risk do they take; none for profit or staying in business, literally speaking.

To take the "yes" position to most of my questions, wouldn't that discourage doctors from going into the business?  I read where a union worker for a GM assembly line made something around $50 hr. plus all their benefits.  Is this close to factual? I never worked in a union job with no real responsibility and made that kind of money.  Any how, where would the needy people be if the pool of quality doctors and medical support just dried up or became insufficient to support all that appears to be asked, and sometimes for free?

I am just a dummy, so be patient with me.

BTW, on this GM issue, did you read where the management there was given big bonuses, last quarter If I remember correctly, and the union workers were also given a bonus of something around $5,000 each.  The article said all this was going on when they haven't paid back the tax payers a dime for their bail out!  Would't it be more fair if the party was put off until the tax payers were paid back?  And too ---Yes, Chrsyler got some of that money and then immediately closed a large assembly plant in our area, it went to Mexico and (other places)?

Doyle
« : July 22, 2012, 08:04:37 PM DB »
byhammerandhand
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"By hammer and hand, all arts do stand."


« #23 : July 22, 2012, 09:21:44 PM »

I don't know what the solution is, but I know the system is broken.

I heard recently, there are 2.7 people in billing for every physician.   When I see my "explanation of benefits" it's pretty amazing what the face charge is and what the negotiated insurance rate it.   I'd hate to be the sucker that has to pay sticker price.

Then there was this article in today's paper:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120721/NEWS/307210098&Ref=AR

I went to an "Urgent Care" center Friday.  The nice doctor that treated me is an ER doc that got fed up with the ER politics like in this article, left the hospital and started a small  practice down the street.

Keith

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas A. Edison
Mojo
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I'm Always In Trouble


« #24 : July 23, 2012, 07:46:15 AM »

Doctors graduate with a mountain of student loan debt. Then once in practice they are bombarded with more debt and costs. Most of the doctors I know and who I have talked to about their occupation have all said that the Doctors making the big money are the spets such as Neuro surgeons, Ortho surgeons, etc.

My buddy who lives with us in the winter time is a brilliant Canadian cardiologist and ICU doctor. He was on the team that performed the first successful heart transplant. He trained numerous Doctors in the USA on open heart surgeries and protocols. He skipped big houses and fancy cars and instead banked and invested as much money as possible throughout his career because he wanted out of the profession as early as possible. He left and retired at the age of 55 burnt out and sick of the demands of the profession.

Many family doctors are now working for large conglomerates. They have been squeezed out of private practice and now practice and get paid by corporations. My local oncologist is one of these. He works for a large company called Florida Cancer Spets. The same thing is happening to Dentists and Vets. many of these are getting squeezed into working for large companies.

The problem with all this is that these companies are For Profit companies and this is where the high cost of medical care is being driven from. It is not Doctor or Nurse salaries it is corporate profits.

Chris
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