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: More Marine Canvas Wrinkles Argh!  ( 7507 )
timtheboatguy
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« : February 10, 2013, 07:02:30 PM »

What am I doing wrong here? Each cover I make seams to be a little worse than the one before it.  I think I may have picked up some bad habits. I thought perhaps I was putting too many darts in my covers trying to make them smooth and tight so I was careful not to over dart this one, and as you can see in the pic, it is down right hidious. Suggestions welcome and appreciated.



http://kloppenberg.us/wrinkles

Tim

http://www.timtheboatguy.com

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Mike
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« #1 : February 10, 2013, 07:17:52 PM »

I wouldnt beat myelf up
On it ill bet the customer was verry happy its canvas ya you dont want wrinkles but its a. Cover not a top of windoe thst where i get resl.  picky.   Heres my last similar  cover

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/photo2-41.jpg
« : February 10, 2013, 07:44:29 PM Mike »

JuneC
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« #2 : February 10, 2013, 08:31:06 PM »

Mike's right - don't beat yourself up about that.  It looks fine.  You're doomed with that particular cover because of the horizontal breaks in the railing.  The only way to not have those divits cause wrinkles is to make it so loose it doesn't pull down in those areas.  That being said, it almost looks like your sewing machine might have the tension too tight on some seams - those places where I see the wrinkles forming a "tent" shape - up towards the right and left, meeting along a seam.  Does your machine draw up the fabric? 

IMHO, covers that look like shrinkwrap are ALWAYS too hard to put on.  I've seen more than a few that the owner has to wet with a hose in order to get the snaps on.  And when the canvas dries, it can actually pull the snap studs out of the boat. 

June

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people."

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Mojo
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« #3 : February 10, 2013, 08:39:20 PM »

I have to agree with Mike and June, don't beat yourself up.

I also agree with June, it seems your machine is pinching or should I say puckering the fabric. If your tension is not set right this will occur. If your tension is OK then it could be the way your feeding the fabric.

I had the same thing happen to me once and it turned out to be the way I was feeding the fabric. My wife actually caught it for me while I was sewing. She just happened to be watching as I was sewing and brought it up to me. I never realized I was doing it but started seeing the fabric pucker up.

Chris
baileyuph
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« #4 : February 10, 2013, 09:03:36 PM »

Tim,

Bob with Toledo Machine Sales, posted an interesting fact about walking foot machines used to do boat cover work.  It is on the business section and Bob reported that he has sold the Amish, who do boat covers, 8 Juki walking foot machines.  What is significant in that post is, the Amish didn't select a needle feet walking foot machine to avoid seam puckering.  In my experience with seaming the thinner boat cover material, I can identify with the Amish machine selection (which was something like a 1181 Juki - look it up as I may have the nomenclature wrong).

You are encouraged, as well, to work with your thread tensions a bit in hopes of getting less puckering.

This is not being critical Tim.

Just thought it might be an interesting read for you.

Doyle
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« #5 : February 12, 2013, 12:39:35 PM »

I find also that the presser foot tension on my machine can make a big difference when dealing with puckering. Don't quite know why.  When working with the 7oz sunbrella it has to have a "light step".
Darren Henry
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« #6 : February 12, 2013, 06:54:12 PM »

Put me down for a "don't sweat it" also Tim. Physics are against you on this boat. Look at  the top edge where the canvas has to turn down the side---Like June pointed out you've got spaces with no railing, then that seat back sticks up 2-3 " , yadda yadda yadda. The only thing you could have done ,if the customer was that anal, would have been to pattern the top to the top of the rail and then sew on a flat panel to come down the sides.

Quote
I find also that the presser foot tension on my machine can make a big difference when dealing with puckering. Don't quite know why

Me too.

Life is a short one way trip, don't blow it!Live hard,die young and leave no ill regrets!
timtheboatguy
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« #7 : February 12, 2013, 07:50:46 PM »

Thanks for the pat on the back! The customer did not complain, and in fact I have had several compliments on my wrinkly covers. It's only when I produce an almost perfect product; that's when I get complaints about wrinkles etc. Go figure!

I do have a competitor that makes a fantastic looking cover, almost no wrinkles, but I have had customers come to me complaing of his snake-like personallity, so it must be my good looks and charm that keeps the phone ringing ;D
« : February 12, 2013, 11:35:49 PM timtheboatguy »

http://www.timtheboatguy.com

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Mike
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« #8 : February 12, 2013, 10:24:35 PM »

I also say it may be presser foot preasure i lIke a lite preasure.

Ive seen pickered seams where if you pull on the seam tou can stresch out the puckers.
 And i think with anlighter foot preasure it dosent occor as much.
Do a test on a measured length of fabric and see if it shortens uP after you see it make it long enough to see say 8'

R.A.F. CaNvAs
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« #9 : February 13, 2013, 04:14:36 AM »


Dunno about you folks but regarding the gathering of Sunbrella.
Machine set up ,and style of sewing aside.  (each to their own)
 'Tiz sad to say but Sunbrella aint what it used to be..   It's crap these days.
 It has no guts to it at all.  As for the 80 inch wide it's diabolical,
 It may as well be dress fabric.
 The  PU coated is much better as stiffness goes but the sticky backing  collects all the dirt and stays sticky and filthy forever..
Had a word with the Sunbrolly rep, He went on about the finishing of the fabric and the resin baths all the while he's pushing his extensive range of  Glen Raven furniture fabrics. Guess the core of the business has taken another route..
Ooo while I'm on a rant , Standards at  Strataglass are slipping too.
When I'm paying through the snout for supposedly the best product for the job
The barrel being marked grade A
I expect ALL the sheets within to be dam-near perfect.
    NEW  "Strataglass " Same price but  Now with extra bubbles and blemishes  !
Nevermind  eh ...................... ::)
   
DBR1957
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« #10 : February 13, 2013, 02:29:09 PM »

Ok, Looks like I'm going to be the jerk here. Tim asked for help because he is obviously not satisfied with the job he did. I admire him for wanting to produce a better product. Telling him not to sweat it isn't answering his questions or helping him. Quite frankly, that job wouldn't leave our shop. Sorry Tim, but don't feel bad, I've
been exactly where you are.

First problem is that it's a pontoon boat with railing breaks (as mentioned) and rounded cushions that stick up
above the railing. Too many up, downs, ins, outs and angles. Cockpit covers on pontoon boats should be double
a similar sized cover for a sportboat. I've done an over windshield cockpit cover on a 48' Sunseeker and would
gladly do another one over a 24' pontoon boat.

Get out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent. Glen Raven said it was due to
warp vs. weft. That's also why the cover is pulling in between the snaps. We double stitch our center seam for
cockpit covers. 1st stitch about 3/4" from edge then fold a stitch line and stitch again. The support poles are
going on the center line and the strong seam there will help out.

When I do a pontoon boat cover I fit to the top of the rail then fit a separate skirt piece around the perimeter.

Hard to tell but the picture looks as if you folded the edge under. Never works out for me. I always reinforce
with webbing and bind the edge.

Setting machine tension is a must but one trick many don't do is to hold the material in front and behind the
needle as you're sewing. This keeps the top and bottom layers even with each other. If you sew a seam then
pull it out it should be smooth. If one panel is smooth and the other has some pucker then the panels didn't
sew evenly.





Darren Henry
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« #11 : February 13, 2013, 07:02:37 PM »

Quote
Get out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent.

I've always "arranged" it that my support poles fell on the side to side seams for that same "tenting" issue and of course top stitched as you describe. I have if required also sewn a webbing "ridge pole" down the cover front to back to mount the poles into.

That said; don't your customers complain about the extra yardage/labour to run the seams for and aft? Or do find that 119" is wide enough (two passes) when you add the skirt as a separate piece and come out at roughly the same yardage and time spent? 

Life is a short one way trip, don't blow it!Live hard,die young and leave no ill regrets!
Mike
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« #12 : February 13, 2013, 08:11:45 PM »

Ive held the seam like that dbr front snd back but only  when seeing a seam face to face i need 2 hand to hold te fabric down flat tor top stitching. I did say i think part of tims problem may be to tight of a foot preasure i like mine loose somloose i can stop the material while sewing i think too tight can gather the seam.
On your seam on the rail ill do that but i wonder hos tim is patterning the cover when i patterned wity  a blank of fabric id sew side to side seams loke on a ponntoon it alway more then 10' wide needed mayby 12'  so id cut off 12' runs sew sideways seams and fir the canvav kver the boat on a trailer.  But patterning on a lift i cant do that to i make plastic pattern and have learned to do half pattern a d duplicate sides so i fit the pattern on the table to 6O" canvas with seams and i like the front to back seams better.
I agree ill take a normal bost any day to a pontoon

timtheboatguy
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« #13 : February 13, 2013, 08:21:50 PM »

Ok, Looks like I'm going to be the jerk here. Tim asked for help because he is obviously not satisfied with the job he did. I admire him for wanting to produce a better product. Telling him not to sweat it isn't answering his questions or helping him. Quite frankly, that job wouldn't leave our shop. Sorry Tim, but don't feel bad, I've
been exactly where you are.

First problem is that it's a pontoon boat with railing breaks (as mentioned) and rounded cushions that stick up
above the railing. Too many up, downs, ins, outs and angles. Cockpit covers on pontoon boats should be double
a similar sized cover for a sportboat. I've done an over windshield cockpit cover on a 48' Sunseeker and would
gladly do another one over a 24' pontoon boat.

Get out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent. Glen Raven said it was due to
warp vs. weft. That's also why the cover is pulling in between the snaps. We double stitch our center seam for
cockpit covers. 1st stitch about 3/4" from edge then fold a stitch line and stitch again. The support poles are
going on the center line and the strong seam there will help out.

When I do a pontoon boat cover I fit to the top of the rail then fit a separate skirt piece around the perimeter.

Hard to tell but the picture looks as if you folded the edge under. Never works out for me. I always reinforce
with webbing and bind the edge.

Setting machine tension is a must but one trick many don't do is to hold the material in front and behind the
needle as you're sewing. This keeps the top and bottom layers even with each other. If you sew a seam then
pull it out it should be smooth. If one panel is smooth and the other has some pucker then the panels didn't
sew evenly.

Thanks for those tips, I will try some of the things you mentioned on future covers. Not all my covers look as bad as the pic that I posted, but I am never happy with the final product. Interesting you mentioned the fold under edge. I just went back to using binding today and that alone made a big difference.

So when you fit to the top rail and then do a skirt around the perimeter; do you staple or pin the pieces together, or use reference marks? Thanks again for the help, I really want to take my work to a higher level.

Tim




« : February 13, 2013, 08:24:11 PM timtheboatguy »

http://www.timtheboatguy.com

We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction.
Douglas MacArthur
Mike
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« #14 : February 13, 2013, 08:38:33 PM »

Tim i slways bind and web the edge its just faster and time is money.
I have hemmed tms few times when binding want available.
 
Darren let me aw ser tou wiestion s i dont findd front to back seams more labor espi ially when pplasti. Patterning wi h i have vranted thats more labor then a blank. But i save alot of time doing only half a pattern on a cover working drom inside the bost on a lift itsreally the only way. And figuring the material if i measure a pontoon and i measure 24' lcront to back and 12' wide with a side to dide seam. 24'devided by 5' passes thsts 5 times 12' wide 30 yards.  I cine forwards seam may
Only be 3 yards extra. 30 no big deal figuring time saved patterning  being half ampattern id find it hard to make it side to side seams anyway

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