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gene
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« #30 : March 16, 2014, 05:42:51 PM »

Another factor is the growing "entitlement" mentality in our society.

More and more folks expect to get free stuff from the government, etc.

Why should I work hard for 5 bucks when I can get 3 bucks free for doing nothing?

A family friend works in an ER as a nurse. She was saying that a lot of people come into the ER thinking that they should not be sick or hurting. She said they truly believe that they should be able to live their lives the way they want to with no negative consequences. They believe they are entitled to a sick and hurt free life and it is unfair that they are sick or hurting and someone should pay them for what they are having to go through.

It's an interesting issue.

gene









« : March 17, 2014, 05:03:00 PM gene »

QUALITY DOES NOT COST, IT PAYS!
sofadoc
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« #31 : March 16, 2014, 06:07:12 PM »

My point is that you want it YOUR way and the practical reality is that YOUR way doesn't pay the bills for the grunts.
I guess I agree. I'm simply not in a position to pay a trainee a livable wage. So I know that an apprentice would not be happy working for me. And I wouldn't be happy taking advantage of them by paying them slave wages.

I still contend that if the future in upholstery were brighter, this whole apprentice thing would take care of itself. There would be plenty of work to go around, and I could afford to pay a trainee/apprentice.

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
MinUph
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« #32 : March 16, 2014, 07:30:52 PM »

Sofa,
  This isn't really about you and your shop. Don't take it all personal. In your situation and your area they might not be enough business to warrant an apprentice. But there are many parts of this country where there is and when there is there is nothing better than to learn from a seasoned tradesman.
  So far I have had maybe 3 or 4 young people working at the shop. My boss pays them a fair wage. If I run into another 3 or 4 and one ends up liking it enough to be an upholsterer I would feel great that I helped them in their career. Even if they don't or they move on at least they learned something.
  To restate what I think I may have said above who knows at this age LOL, Not all young people are like we here have made them out to be. Well there are many who are but not all. I think they should have a chance to learn a trade. After all they can't learn one in school any more. Which is a whole other subject no isn't.

Paul
Minichillo's Upholstery
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sofadoc
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« #33 : March 16, 2014, 07:55:45 PM »

Sofa,
  This isn't really about you and your shop. Don't take it all personal.
Sorry if I sounded like I was taking offense. I'm not at all. I'm really trying to understand how different regions approach the trainee/apprentice policy. I think this is a good topic. I wish more people would comment, instead of the same handful of us.

I've never had anyone who was genuinely passionate about this trade. And frankly, if I hadn't grown up in the family business, odds are I would've chosen a different path myself. But that can probably be said for all of us. There was some twist of fate in our life that led us to this business.

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
SteveA
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« #34 : March 17, 2014, 06:03:15 AM »

"I wish more people would comment, instead of the same handful of us"

You have good responses - I've counted 11-12 folks are here contributing ! 
 
Anyway - up here in the NYC area it's tough for a small business that plays by the rules.  What I see more of here is either a husband /wife duo grinding out a living mostly under the radar or an accomplished upholsterer (now running a business)  who has the larger shop / 10 employees and works primarily for insurance and decorators.   

 Encouraging young trades folks is not all that simple.  After all - carry furniture, breath pollutants, and eat lunch in 5 minutes is not in their agenda. 

SA



 
kodydog
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« #35 : March 17, 2014, 09:00:55 AM »

When I think way back to my apprenticeship (mid 80's) I remember working for $5 an hour. I was working manufacturing and after two years I approached the supervisor about a 50 cent raise. I worked hard, came in everyday on time and learned as much as they would let me. The boss told me to get my production up and in 6 months he'll see what he could do. 6 months later nothing happened so I went to the competition who built the same type furniture and applied for a job. They hired me at $2 an hour more. I felt bad that they gave me a chance and invested the time in me but I felt if they wanted to retain their investment they needed to show me by giving me compensation.

I'm sure most folks here have a similar story. There were plenty of times I wanted to call it quiets and find something easier to do. I'm now glad I didn't. It's tough staying in this business. Most careers are the same way. You have to start somewhere and usually it's at the bottom. If you work hard and have a good attitude someday you'll find yourself at the top.

Never stop learning and have the nads to take chances.


 I had a very good friend whose brother drop out of high school and he asked if I could but him to work and teach him something. I invested 2 years in him and one day he came to me told me he needed 2 dollar an hour raise or he would leave . I explained about how much time and money I had invested in him and I would meet him half way , he agreed and a week later he quit.

Bobslost I have the same situation in my own shop. I hired a young man to work in my shop. His father has a 9th grade education and he followed in his footsteps. I considered taking him under my wing and show him a few things. But after a few months I learned this fellow has no intentions of making his life better. His biggest ambition is to get a "professional" job at Walmart. I'm pretty sure he couldn't fill out the application.
« : March 17, 2014, 09:17:31 AM kodydog »

There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html
gene
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« #36 : March 17, 2014, 05:02:41 PM »

.
« : March 18, 2014, 08:46:16 PM gene »

QUALITY DOES NOT COST, IT PAYS!
Mike
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« #37 : March 17, 2014, 05:25:44 PM »

WERE I WAS IN RURAL NEW HAMPSHIRE  I saw no upholstery shops m im sure there was some, there were only a half dozen canvas shop competing but we were all spread around the lake in there own sections. heck there wasn't even a traffic light till after I moved out. here in SW Florida there are many canvas shops in my area one is canvas and home upholstery  and I know of about 6 stricktly upholstery shops.  it took a bit of time to get over the other shop and accept thet there is plenty for everybody here. as far as apprentices ive never had one. after I had a strike my son came to florida  with the idea to learn the trade but he didn't last a month even didn't care to learn or show any intrest I don't know what he was tinking before he came

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« #38 : March 18, 2014, 05:59:38 PM »

I think we all understand that it takes a certain mindset to mesh with a "trade".  And not everyone is "wired" that way!  You have to be interested in "making" things.  You have be reasonably mechanically inclined.  You have to be interested in "forensics" (taking things apart, noting how they were put together in the first place, and willing to fuss over putting them back together neatly).

I consider myself very fortunate to have had teachers who recognized a talent and a willingness to "suck it up" and suffer the learning curve mastery of a trade requires.  They were unbelievably patient with me... I was always on time, but my attention to detail was wanting at the outset of my tailoring/alteration career!  My teachers knew when to give me a more difficult assignment and they also knew how to return substandard work to me with useful criticism (helpful, not demeaning) and a sense of humor that helped me laugh at myself and understand the need for greater attention to detail.  I think that is too often lacking when training a newbie, and its oversight quickly turns off a young person.  Especially, in an age of immediate gratification!

I really do understand and appreciate the difficulty of paying a rank beginner a living wage.  Let's face it, our trade is built on the mistakes.  And since time is money in the trades, mistakes become costly in pretty short order!  The guy who wanted me to sign a non-compete knew considerably less about proper sewing technique and machinery than I did, frankly.  He was stunned when I told him there were 2 ways I'd sign any such thing (no way and no -uckin' way) since doing so would only hobble my ability to pay my bills.  I'm certain he had plenty to say about me after I left his employ, but after 7 yrs. he probably learned as much from me as I did from him.  I gave Boss a full 2 mos. notice and I gave it at the beginning of "slow season"; plenty of time to find a replacement grunt.  I didn't owe either one anything more. 
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« #39 : March 18, 2014, 06:21:46 PM »

To all facing a similar dilemma with a non compete contract . Check with an attorney or there are some free legal aids you can find online . In most states they are not worth the paper there written on . No one can stop you from making a living and unless there some kind of a trade secret or design owned by them , they can not stop you from going to work for a competitor or opening a business down the street. You own your set of skills and experience and thats how we all pay are bills.
Darren Henry
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« #40 : March 18, 2014, 07:24:33 PM »

Quote
I don't know what he was tinking before he came

I would guess that he loved his Dad. You stepped in for your's on a project you didn't even believe,remember.

I spent the last 9 or 10 weekends of Dad's life ( including hunting season) sleeping on what they had in the palative room for a cot and "co-ordinating" things between him and the hospital staff,looking after his trailer,and kinda being his "manservant". Pretty much what he had done for mom at  home,all those years, after her chemo and "stuff" . She wasn't even pleasant to him some days.

Life is a short one way trip, don't blow it!Live hard,die young and leave no ill regrets!
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« #41 : March 18, 2014, 07:31:28 PM »

This might be a lead for some business leaders here looking to get a helper, if they get interested great. Im sure you will enjoy some parts of there work, your the Boss.
Some areas with Schools in proximity to walking" laugh" might still offer programs of some sort. I am sure they didn't get rid of all of them, its probably a hassle because I was in the programs from 9th grade thru my senior graduating class.
They had different names like trades and industry, etc. I don't know the paticullar of funding but somehow fed Im sure was the lead, they paid quite a bit of the salary.
I had friends with parents of business of different types and this was a norm for a lot of them, this was or I thought common as 3 different class types like this in my high school of buss, agr, building industry. Somewhat small town with 2 high schools with 580roughly in my class.
So we could ask around this week for new information on these types of programs
this is an option, good day everyone
brmax
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« #42 : March 18, 2014, 07:47:55 PM »

My youngest a senior just walked in so I ask if there was this type of program and the brilliant response, yes Career Connection!
MinUph
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« #43 : March 18, 2014, 08:15:24 PM »

When I was in school it was called Industrial Arts. Which consisted of shops for metal, wood, printing, and drafting. I took them all. Some from 7th to 12th grades. I loved it. From what i understand most if not all of these types of classes have gone by the wayside. I don't know why other than the perceived perception that everyone needs to go to college.

Paul
Minichillo's Upholstery
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sofadoc
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« #44 : March 18, 2014, 08:37:11 PM »

We had a "Vocational Arts" department at our high school.  Metal Trades, Electronics, Radio & TV Repair, Auto Mechanics, and Upholstery. It was in a state-of-the-art separate building on an adjoining campus.

They dropped funding for those programs after about 10 years. The reason was that they tracked all the students for 5 year after graduation, and almost none of them were still involved in the trade for which they had been educated. So they just couldn't justify the cost.

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
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