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| | |-+  Replaced springs, but still sagging
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: Replaced springs, but still sagging  ( 6720 )
Ageorge
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« : July 25, 2014, 01:26:29 PM »

I'm working on a spring repair (zig zag spring) on a chair. It's a newer piece (and not a good one, bad foam, bad wood, etc) and two of the springs were broken. I really dislike doing spring repairs but normally I can figure it out. I've tried twice now and the seat is still sagging. I used the spring repair brackets. Are the springs too long? I tried cutting it down a tiny bit but then I can't stretch it the bracket even with a stretching tool. Any suggestions?

Thanks for your help!!!
lruthb
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« #1 : July 25, 2014, 02:21:19 PM »

Spring itself has served it's life of the wire I would suspect. If you didn't shorten the height of the original spring set up. Did you secure each zig zag to each other? My guess is that chair wasn't made to last a lifetime and it has reached it potential. Funny that the repair is what the customer wanted when the chair must not be that costly in the first place.. go figure. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
sofadoc
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« #2 : July 25, 2014, 03:52:01 PM »

Are you replacing the springs with new ones? Or just cutting off the broken end, stretching, and re-mounting?

When I replace broken springs, I use usually go back with some that are better quality/gauge than the originals that come with low priced furniture.

And it is important to connect the zig-zag springs to each other with stabilizer wire, or tying with spring twine

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
baileyuph
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« #3 : July 25, 2014, 08:47:03 PM »

Zigs are breaking.........

If it is important to repair this item, consider doing the following:

1.  Springs are too weak and too long.  Consider adding new stronger zigs and increase the density, add an additional spring.  

2.  Follow Sofa's comment about cross bracing, some call them stay wires.  Anyway get stronger Stay wires and get Sofa to explain the way they should be clipped to the zigs, he gave me some good information just a few years ago.  It makes the spring - up much firmer and is the only way to go.

As a comment, manufacturers are under the gun to keep the price down on furniture because consumers are very dumb and price sensitive; therefore, the problem you have very likely stems from "built to sell" because consumers seem only to understand "price".

Anyway pick Sofa's mind on this if you want to build it to last. The stronger stay wires and strong clips that attach them to the zig springs are the way to go.  The stay wires and clips are a little more expensive but cheaper in the long run. 

Maybe he will chime back in and step you through the method I reference to making a stronger spring base.

Doyle
« : July 25, 2014, 08:52:46 PM DB »
kodydog
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« #4 : July 25, 2014, 10:59:25 PM »

Did you strip the chair down to the point that you have the fabric, padding and spring cover off. And your trying to replace the springs from the top. Not the bottom.

As a last ditch effort I'll stuff the cavity with scrap foam and stretch webbing across the bottom to hold it in place. It will not sag after that.


There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html
sofadoc
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« #5 : July 26, 2014, 08:37:01 AM »

Anyway pick Sofa's mind on this if you want to build it to last.
Maybe he will chime back in and step you through the method I reference to making a stronger spring base.
I'd be happy to share my methods.

But they involve purchasing special tools and supplies. Such as a Hartco pneumatic clincher, the appropriate clips, and heavy gauge stakewire. I choose to invest in these items because I decided to make repairs a big part of my game. For me, repairs have a high profit margin, and they allow me to make money off substandard furniture that otherwise isn't worth working on.

For those who don't really specialize in these types of repairs, it wouldn't be prudent to purchase the necessary items. In those cases, Kody has a very good suggestion about adding webbing and scraps of foam under the springs.

Ageorge: If you'll PM your address, I'll be happy to send you enough 12 gauge stake wire and clips to make 1 repair. But you'll have to improvise when crimping them, with pliers or whatever tools you have on hand. Most suppliers sell BW pliers and clips. They work OK, but not great IMO. Most suppliers only sell 16 gauge paper-wrapped stake wire. It's fine for backs, but way too thin for seats.

But if the springs are poor quality, then connecting them with stake wire may only make a minimal improvement to the sagging problem.

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
Darren Henry
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« #6 : July 28, 2014, 06:37:33 AM »

I find that hand tieing the springs with jute twine "firms" them up better than stay wire,but all I have are BW clips, so ---

Life is a short one way trip, don't blow it!Live hard,die young and leave no ill regrets!
chrisberry12
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« #7 : July 28, 2014, 01:31:26 PM »

Hi Everyone.

 If they are crappy cheap spring and the customer does not want to pay to replace them, weave the elastic webbing across them, this works excellent. If they don"t mind paying extra and the frame can support the traditional zigger springs go that route and hand tie them loop to loop then to the next spring so you are tying each side of the zigger then move to the next spring otherwise each zigger will want to roll on its side. You could add a couple rows of elastic webbing depending on the stability of the frame. Odds are it is plywood, don't forget to add burlap over the springs, a lot of companies have eliminated this step which wears out the padding, so add burlap! Good Luck, and let us know how it turns out

Chris
Ageorge
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« #8 : July 30, 2014, 02:48:38 PM »

Thanks everyone for the help. I ended up hand tying the springs together and adding heavy cotton under the springs to get rid of the space between the foam and the springs. The foam was super cheap, and yes, junk plywood frame. Seriously, this chair was not worth taking apart and doing the repair the best way-the customer wouldn't want to pay for it. I ended up using a spring repair kit to put the springs back on the sides rather than taking the whole thing apart and getting to the correct spot (it is a channel back style chair with a tight seat, and would've take some time to take apart). I think I will try the elastic webbing trick the next time, though, I just didn't see it before! Also, sofadoc, thanks for the offer, I just didn't think this one was worth it! If you ever happen to do any videos let me know! :)
I don't feel too confident about this repair. This one my be may be my first freebie. I think my zig zag spring repair days are over for the foreseeable future, I just always end up losing money because of how long it takes me to do them and how little people want to pay for it.  I ended up doing the same thing with recliners/recliner repairs and while I lost a little money the sanity it saved me was worth it.
sofadoc
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All types of upholstery.....except cars and boats.


« #9 : July 30, 2014, 03:04:39 PM »

Those "from the side" zig-zag repair kits actually have a pretty good success rate. And if you hand-tied the springs to keep them from spreading apart, you've really done all you can do without getting into a more expensive repair.

Don't be afraid to charge a sufficient amount for repairs of cheap furniture. I know it may seem like it doesn't make good sense to pay $150 to repair a $300 recliner........but people will pay it (at least they do around here, anyway).

I forgot to take "before" pics, but this one had 4 broken springs, and the foam was all chewed up:


Also, the mechanism was broken. A welder 2 blocks away from me charges me $15 for repairs like this one:


I find it easier to get the mechs welded, than to spend a lot of time trying to track down and order the correct one. And so far, I've never had a welded mech fail. Most of the time, they're BETTER than new.

This is part of a leather dual reclining loveseat. I charged the customer way more profit per hour than I would've made if I'd recovered the whole thing. 

With better quality no-sag springs, new foam, and 12 gauge stakewire, this seat will still be in tip-top shape long after the whole loveseat has ended up at the landfill. 
« : July 30, 2014, 05:00:04 PM sofadoc »

"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban
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