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: Needle & Thread size guides  ( 53579 )
BigJohn
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« : February 26, 2009, 11:10:12 AM »

Below you will find several guides that were posted a year or more ago in a thread that I started, I've grouped them all together for your convenience.  I thank all the original posters as these have helped me and many others I would expect.
                                                      Big John

Singer needle     -       Pfaff Needle
                                     
18 ----------------------- 110
20 ----------------------- 125
22 ----------------------- 140
23 ----------------------- 160

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thread     Needle     Fabric Weight
V-30    #12 or #14    Fabrics under 1 1/2 ounces
V-46    #14 or #16    Fabrics under 3 ounces
V-69    #16 or #18    Fabrics up to 6 ounces (can use for Sunbrella)
V-92    #18 or #20    Fabrics up to 10 ounces (can use for Sunbrella)
V-138    #20 or #22    Fabrics over 10 ounces. This thread is too heavy for   practical use in home sewing machines.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Metric Needle Size           Singer Needle Size            Compatible Thread Size
60                                               8                              12
65                                               9                              12, 15
70                                              10                             12, 15, 23
75                                              11                             12, 15, 23
80                                              12                             23, 30
85                                              13                             23, 30
90                                              14                             23, 30, 46
95                                              15                             23, 30, 46
100                                             16                            30, 46, 69
105                                             17                            30, 46, 69
110                                             18                            46, 69
120                                             19                            69, 92
125                                             20                            69, 92
130                                             21                            69, 92
140                                             22                            92, 138
150                                             22.5                          138
160                                             23                           138
170                                             23.5                          138
180                                             24                           138, 207
190                                             24.5                          138, 207
200                                             25                           207, 277
230                                             26                           207, 277, 346
250                                             27                           207, 277, 346, 415
280                                             28                           277, 346, 415
300                                             29                           346, 415
330                                             30                           415
350                                             31                           415
380                                             32                           415


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Avg.*   Ndl Sz.**
   Strength   Min. Sz.
Size   (Lbs.)   
     
33   3.7   80 / 12
33   5.2   80 / 12
46   6.8   100 / 16
60   6   110 / 18
69   10   110 / 18
92   13.3   120 / 20
138   20   140 /22
207   31   160 / 24
277   41   180 / 25
346   57   230 / 26
415   66   250 / 27
554   91   280
693   92   300

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« : August 06, 2009, 08:43:56 AM BigJohn »
ahkahn
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« #1 : February 26, 2009, 11:37:42 PM »

This is awesome!  Thank you!!
BigJohn
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« #2 : March 02, 2009, 10:39:01 PM »

Top
barrys
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« #3 : August 04, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »

If a needle is numbered as a 134-35, what does the second ("35") number stand for?
 
Gregg @ Keystone Sewing
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« #4 : August 05, 2009, 06:22:01 PM »

If a needle is numbered as a 134-35, what does the second ("35") number stand for?
 

barrys,

I hit you with that information in the thread about your Pfaff, check it out.

Anyways, about the chart...

The needle sizes are considered "Old Singer/Asian and the other numbers are number metric, or NM as designated on most brands packs of needles.  The Number Metric (NM) is NOT a Pfaff innovation, but an attempt was made in German publication, "the German standard DIN 5325" that published the comparison of metric  and other size designations for sewing machine needles.  A metric size designation under the the abbreviation NM was introduced to replace the 40 or so different size designations in use at that time.  The old Singer numbers are arbitrary, but the NM sizes are the actual blade size in hundredths of a millimeter measured above the scarf or the short groove, but not at the reinforced part of the blade. or the thickness of the blade of the needle, the part that is penetrating the material that can be measured with a caliper.  Most needle brands don't have the system, as many cross reference, but most do have the size in the NM inscribed on the shank of the needle.

BTW...Old Singer/Asian size 20, or Number Metric (NM)125 is a very common size within a lot of needle systems and brands and can be misleading in that yes it is available!

Another issue I have is that this guide does not provide any allowance for various layers of material.  For example, You would use a much different needle and thread size if you are sewing  say two layers of Sunbrella, or 12 layers of the same oz. Sunbrella.

For example, an overhang with braid binding and one layer of Sunbrealla is commonly sewn with a size 18 needle, and 69 thread.

A boat enclosure, in contrast, can be a few layers of Sunbrella, glass, and Sunbrella double fold binding (four layers of Sunbrella counting the prefolded sides)  commonly sewn with a 92 size thread and 21 needle.

So, again, you must really consider the goods being sew, and cannot, in all cases, simply refer to a chart for the best possible combination.  There is a reason why all of my customers in the same industry are using the same size needles, give or take a size up or down, as they all have come to the same conclusions, more or less!
« : August 06, 2009, 08:20:27 AM Gregg @ Keystone Sewing »
baileyuph
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« #5 : August 06, 2009, 07:46:20 AM »

Quote
Another issue I have is that this guide does not provide any allowance for various layers of material


Absolutely Gregg, and you might not only emphasize layers, density of materials can enter in the equation.

Doyle
Gregg @ Keystone Sewing
Guest


« #6 : August 06, 2009, 08:13:49 AM »

Quote
Another issue I have is that this guide does not provide any allowance for various layers of material


Absolutely Gregg, and you might not only emphasize layers, density of materials can enter in the equation.

Doyle

Sure, no doubt.
BigJohn
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« #7 : August 06, 2009, 09:48:07 AM »

You'll note I removed the comment that the 125 / 20 size needle isn't made and added dividing lines between the 4 different charts, hopes this makes the posting better for everyone to understand. If anyone else has any additions or corrections let me know and I'll update the post so we can all use it and refer other newbee's to it as they post in the future.
                                                  Big John
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« #8 : June 09, 2010, 12:33:13 PM »

Here's an interesting chart from Gregg at Keystone.  It shows different needle points and how they affect the look of the stitch.  It shows which points work best with soft, medium, and hard leather.

http://keysew.com/Demo_images/Groz-Beckert_Needles_for_the_processing_of_leather.pdf


Bobby
www.riddlescustomupholstery.com
www.sunstopper.biz
Several Old Singers
Elna SU
Older Union Special
BRAND NEW Highlead GC0618-1-SC
and a new Cobra Class 4 Leather Machine  ;)
hdflame
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« #9 : February 16, 2011, 08:10:33 AM »

Every so often I run across info that I think may be helpful, so I wanted to add this to this thread about needles.  I don't remember where I got it from, but there's a link at the bottom from the woman that wrote it.  Hope it will help someone!


As we get caught up in trying to get sewing projects completed and move on to the next one in the limited time available it is so very easy just to jump from project to project without giving any thought to whether or not we have the right needle in the sewing machine.

It can be a costly mistake to simply use the same needle for everything you sew until it breaks. The size of the needle you use depends upon the size of the fabric yarns in the fabric. The finer the yarns, the finer the needle needs to be. In general, a needle should be fine enough to penetrate the fabric without marring it, yet have a large enough eye that the thread does not fray or break during the sewing process.

Needle types related to fabric structure are sharp point (regular) for woven fabrics, ball point for knits, and wedge point for leather and vinyl.

The REGULAR SHARP POINT NEEDLE is ideal for all woven fabrics because it helps to produce an even stitch and causes a minimum of fabric puckering. This needle is not recommended for knits, as it has a tendency to "cut" yarns and cause skipped stitches. This needle comes in a wide range of sizes from the finest size 9 to a heavy size 18.

The BALL POINT NEEDLE is specifically designed for knit and elastic fabrics and has a "rounded" point rather than a sharp point. This needle pushes between the fabric yarns rather than "cutting through" the yarns. This needle comes in sizes 9 to 16 and the larger the needle size, the more "rounded" the needle point is.

The WEDGE POINT NEEDLE, which is designed for leather and vinyl, easily pierces these fabrics to make a hole that will close back upon itself. This eliminates unattractive holes in the garment, and also reduces the risk of the stitches tearing the fabric. The wedge point needle comes in sizes 11 to 18. The size 11 needle is designed for soft pliable leathers,while size 18 is designed for heavy or multiple layers of leather or vinyl.

In addition to choosing the right TYPE of needle, it is also important to know the proper needle SIZE for the type of fabric being used. As a general rule you can utilize the following fabric category/needle size information when choosing the needle for your next project.

DELICATE fabrics such as silk, chiffon, voile, fine lace and organdy would need a fine "size 9" needle.

LIGHTWEIGHT fabrics such as synthetic sheers, batiste, taffeta, velvet, stretch fabric, tricot and plastic film would need a "size 11" needle.

MEDIUM WEIGHT fabrics such as gingham, poplin, linen, muslin, chambray, wool crepe, flannel, knits, jersey, wool, chintz, satin, raw silk, wool suiting, stretch fabric and drapery fabrics would need a "size 14" needle.

MEDIUM-HEAVY fabrics such as sail cloth, gabardine, heavy suiting, tweed and heavy drapery fabrics would need a "size 16" needle.

HEAVY fabrics such as denim, overcoatings, ticking, upholstery and canvas fabrics would need a "size 18" needle.

One final needle pointer is always replace dull bent or nicked needles. If you hit a pin, you should immediately change the needle. A bent needle, even if only "slightly" bent or nicked can cause skipped stitches and can easily cause damage to your fabric by tearing the fabric yarns.

****************************************************************

About the author:

Sarah J. Doyle is author of over 25 sewing, craft and how-to books, as well as author of online pattern making, sewing and craft classes. Visit http://SewWithSarah.com for information on books, classes, newsletters and the latest hints and tips.


Bobby
www.riddlescustomupholstery.com
www.sunstopper.biz
Several Old Singers
Elna SU
Older Union Special
BRAND NEW Highlead GC0618-1-SC
and a new Cobra Class 4 Leather Machine  ;)
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