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Thread issues on Singer 111w101

Started by slow96z, April 09, 2014, 05:44:45 pm

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slow96z

Hey guys, it's been a while, I hope everybody is doing well!  I'm back and with an old issue that I need to revisit as it's keeping me from finishing the welt on an awning which needs to go camping this weekend.

I have a Singer 111w101 and have made every adjustment I can think of, from adjusting the shaft position of the hook gear to adjusting tension on the top thread and I still get this issue.  If I run the machine by hand, the top thread does fine, but as soon as I put some power to it, almost regardless of speed, I get freying on my top thread at the needle.  Eventually it nicks the thread fibers enough that the thread breaks and I have to back up and start over where the issue began.  I thought it might have been from burrs on the throat plate so I pulled it, re-drilled the hole and polished it top and bottom so I know that's not it either. I was able to live with it on my last project, but now it's doing it about every foot of sewing.  Any theories or ideas?  I really appreciate any help you guys can give!



Thanks again!

sofadoc

Did you set the stitch length at zero while you adjusted shaft position of the hook gear? Sounds like timing. The hook isn't passing in front of the needle at the right point.
"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban

babock

Which side of the needle are you threading through and which side of the needle has the groove?

slow96z

I did not set the stitch length to 0, not really sure there's a 0 on the dial, but I'll look.

The thread is going from left to right and the grove is on the right side of the needle, where the hook can grab it.

sofadoc

Even if there isn't a zero on the dial, set the stitch length at the lowest possible setting. Then adjust your hook point.
"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban

slow96z

Oh, ok.  Yes then, that was done.  I set it at its lowest point a long time ago, but last night I bottomed out the cc screw and then put the bb screw back on top so it's as low as it can go.  This was done before the adjustment party.

Darren Henry

No experience on the W101 ; but I know that on the W155's and their clones, the hook can be adjusted left and right and if it is too far away from the needle you can have this issue.It has to be almost deflect the needle kinda close.

I know this is going to sound flakey; but make sure the thread path through the needle is clear and that the needle is appropriate for the thread. If you have picked up some gunk, or what ever, the thread cannot pass through the needle and eye fast enough to form the loop for when  the hook gets there.

Failing that It's timing. I have no training on sewing machine repair ---but necessity is a mother, so I have figured out a few things. I pull the bobbin out so I can see and run the needle to bottom dead centre . I then advance with the handwheel until the hook and needle meet and adjust accordingly.

Life is a short one way trip, don't blow it!Live hard,die young and leave no ill regrets!

JuneC

I have a bogus welt foot that does that.  The hole in the foot is not centered correctly so the needle rides too close to the foot.  This chafes the thread and it breaks.  I suppose I could drill it out larger and polish, but I just bought another one instead.  Check the needle/thread path through everything it has to penetrate to make sure no parts are shredding the thread or hooking it.

June
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people."

     W. C. Fields

west coast

Is the needle nicked? Try changing the needle and see if it helps its hopefully something simple like that.

slow96z

It happens with new needles so I don't think it's that, and I did most of my boat without it ever happening, including using the same foot, but I drilled out the foot last night just to be sure.  Still happened.  I can now see that when the needle goes down and through the canvas when it comes up it has a wrap of top thread around it and that's what breaks- like it's the point of the needle snagging it when it makes this loop.  I ended up finishing the awning with my house machine and a welt foot that it has, but I really need to get my "good" machine up and running again.  I just don't know what would cause that wrapping other than timing.  At what point in the groove of the needle does the hook need to intersect it?  The thread hole is way at the bottom of the groove and my hook is intersecting the needle towards the top of the groove on the upward stroke.  Does that sound right?

brmax

It should be in the center of the cutout section of the needle just above the eye, I believe the hook should be a couple paper thickness's away and at this same time the deflector is first to hit anything "if" touching. Sometimes theres marks on the needle bar as a guide for height setting, though singers were used in several sewing types and multiple marks are possible on some. But usually when the needle comes off the bottom BDC a mark might line up on the needle bar and it might be at around .080 of an inch off the bottom. This probably sound to some like I stayed in a hotel last night, but don't fret.
maybe the hook cover fell on the floor got a nick and when the thread passes over the top of the bobbin latch each revolution it gets cut.
Good day

ajlelectronics

Quote from: slow96z on April 10, 2014, 02:46:05 pm
  At what point in the groove of the needle does the hook need to intersect it? 


It isn't the groove that the hook uses. Is it possible the needle is back to front? The long groove faces away from the hook, the flattened section just above the needle's eye is the scarf, where the hook should be meeting the thread.

marko69

I've been fighting a similar problem for 3 days now.  Ultimately, the problem was the hook not close enough to the needle.  It looked close enough but it wasn't.

Toledo Mach. Sales

Try pulling some thread through the needlebar thread guide & see if it cuts it.
We sell New& Used Industrial Sewing Machines,Parts,Needles & Thread.
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slow96z

My needlebar thread guide is pretty questionable, as the thread usually starts off behind it but then comes out after a few stitches and just flops around.  It's not cutting the thread, for sure.  I noticed last night that there is a guide right after the check spring that has a groove worn into it from the thread, I wonder if that is causing the issue.  I added tension to the check spring, switched to a non-bonded poly thread and did a test piece practicing french seams, which went through without breaking the thread, but I think I have a tension issue somewhere because the machine would sew perfectly by hand, and hum along at low to medium speeds, but at higher speeds it would eventually cause big blobs of thread on the bottom side of the material.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't ust take it to somebody for a full tune up, but budgets are tight.  Anybody in Houston that you guys can recommend?