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Ziggers

Started by 65Buick, December 21, 2017, 09:25:03 pm

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65Buick

I was taking apart a chair and noticed that the zig zag springs had much larger space between them. It's a chair from the 60s I assume. I thought all zigs were the same size?

Will post photo in a bit.

MinUph

That is normal. Ziggers are not all the same size.
Paul
Minichillo's Upholstery
Website

sofadoc

Much of the new junk made today has ziggers with wider bends. Usually a lighter gauge, cheaper quality spring. Kinda unusual to hear of a 60's chair with them.
"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban

kodydog

Rarely a day go's by that I don't scratch my head and go huh.
There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html

65Buick

Here it is

http://gdurl.com/Ps38

I was thinking 60s because it was originally a purple damask fabric. But now I'm thinking maybe it was more like 80s. They were filthy too, I was envisioning that they were in some of bar, or maybe party room.


gene

I got interested so I did some googling - not to be confused with canoodling.

No Sag springs were introduced in furniture in 1934.

http://homefurniturecomponents.com/campaigns/high-point/Content/documents/seating/no-sag.pdf

gene
QUALITY DOES NOT COST, IT PAYS!

65Buick

gene that's a cool brochure. 1930s! hard to believe.

According to it: Supr-Loop is ideal for backs and under coil spring units

Typical. Factory was like 'who cares! they'll never know'

MinUph

Yes I've seen these through my whole career. I'd say 15% of the ziggers are these spaced out ones.
Paul
Minichillo's Upholstery
Website

65Buick

After some thought, and doing the coil spring tying thing, I have to be honest:
I don't see a big deal in using the better quality ziggers. Has anyone ever been asked "please use hand-tied coil springs and not those zig-zag springs." seriously.

kodydog

December 22, 2017, 01:45:44 pm #9 Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 01:46:31 pm by kodydog
I worked with a guy who had never done 8-way tie. He was from Miami and one day I asked him, what did you do when a piece of furniture needed the coil springs retied. He said his boss would rip out all the springs, throw them away, web the bottom and put foam inside the cavity. I was shocked. I then taught him the art of 8-way hand tying.

I have never had a customer ask to replace coil springs with ziggers. That would be a down grade. Usually by the time I finish explaining what 8-way tied springs are they say, just fix it.
There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html

sofadoc

To me, ziggers or coils is not an "either/or" option.
If the piece was originally designed with ziggers, then it should remain that way.
Same with coils.

I've seen a few jobs where all the hand-tied coils springs were ripped out and replaced with a slab of foam.
It may have seemed like a real time-saver to the guy that did it. But foam isn't cheap. When you factor the cost of the foam versus the time to tie the coils, it was probably a wash.
"Perfection is the greatest enemy of profitability" - Mark Cuban

MinUph

Quote from: 65Buick on December 22, 2017, 03:48:06 am
After some thought, and doing the coil spring tying thing, I have to be honest:
I don't see a big deal in using the better quality ziggers. Has anyone ever been asked "please use hand-tied coil springs and not those zig-zag springs." seriously.


That was not a good thought process. Downgrading a seat to ziggers is like taking a Cadillac (older one) and putting a VW engine it it. Ziggers when they first came into mass use were considered junk furniture. No support.
Paul
Minichillo's Upholstery
Website

baileyuph

You need a broader background in furniture building to better understand the differences found
in the two springs.

First it starts with the frame - not built the same.  Coil frames are much stronger and are built differently.

Second, think about a zipper spring and ask the question where is the weakest point?  (a little help --
right where the person sits) - the middle.  Not true with a coil arrangement. 

Where are coils the most comfortable?  doesn't matter, all coils are the same in the spring base, so sits
with the same general comfort.  Doesn't take much to understand that the comfort dynamics of the zig- zag varies across the spring (much harder as you move from the center.

Another spring edges _ very important and not normally found in Z-Z springs.  Coils rectify that
concern.  Edges spring!

There is much more to understanding the two springs.

Doyle

kodydog

Quote from: sofadoc on December 22, 2017, 02:35:19 pm
I've seen a few jobs where all the hand-tied coils springs were ripped out and replaced with a slab of foam.
It may have seemed like a real time-saver to the guy that did it. But foam isn't cheap. When you factor the cost of the foam versus the time to tie the coils, it was probably a wash.


True and the comfort will be changed drastically. If you do it without the customers permission you will have some explaining to do. I don't know how these guys get away with it.
There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full.
http://northfloridachair.com/index.html

65Buick

Alright. I see everyone's point here.

It's difficult when so many people see a price and don't ask questions.

We have a sofa in our house that I bought before I began this. It was not a cheap piece - over 2k.
It uses ziggers and 6" HR foam. I find it comfortable.